Re: Vincent Untz and the "users that like to hate people"

[Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam whitemice org>]

On Tue, 2013-02-19 at 00:53 +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Olav Vitters <olav vitters nl> wrote:
> > Loads of GNOME/Linux advice is in the form of things to run on the
> > command line. From that you cannot infer that for GNOME/Linux you need
> > the command line. Only that most advice suggests that.
> I consider this as a problem.

I do not.

> Why command line seems to be a must when using desktop systems based
> on existing Free Software?

It is not at all limited to "Free Software" platforms.  It is the
defacto debugging and administration tool of every platform.  Yes,
Microsoft platforms have some very nice GUI administration tools.... but
one runs head-first into them quite regularly.  I have ~300 Windows
workstations under my administration - WE USE THE COMMAND LINE ALL THE
TIME!  THE COMMAND LINE IS OFTEN ****EASIER****!   IT IS EASIER TO
INSTRUCT PEOPLE ABOUT USING THE COMMAND LINE!  YOU CAN CUT-N-PASTE TEXT
FROM THE A terminal/cmd WINDOW! - THEN PUT IT IN A TICKET OR E-MAIL.
THE COMMAND LINE TOOLS REMAIN THE SAME ACROSS VARIOUS VERSIONS AND
REVISIONS;  vs. their need to constantly redesign the control panel.

> ( I use terminal even on OSX boxes. Don't use Windows very often these days. )

The command line tools of Windows finally do not suck, they've invested
a lot of effort into improving there command line.  Why?  Because people
want it!

> > For fun, try finding out if you can do graphically what is suggested to
> > be done on the command line. A GUI might be more inconvenient, but
> > usually it is just as well possible. Still, copy/pasting a command is
> > easier than writing down all the buttons to click and where they are in
> > some GUI.
> Try give such arguments to a regular visitor of Neowin?

I have no idea what "Neowin" is.

> I view GUI as a usage pattern; it is not the best all the times but
> some people are just fan of it.

Sure.

> I hope GNOME/Free Software GUI can cover more common tasks, indeed.

So do I,  but the coverage is pretty good currently.

> > No, I was not talking about usage patterns. I said that if an
> > application is distributed within Windows, things are done to ensure
> > that you do not need any manual steps.
> Well, we can also use ZIP package or "portable" package.
> Windows software distribution is a mess, :-)

Yep.  Developers/vendors NEED to properly package their stuff.  Period.

> But those who created launchers want to create launchers I guess; as I
> mentioned, there is some use cases not matter you consider them edge
> or not.

And you can create launchers for those *edges*.

> > If you distribute things for GNOME and then do not offer a good
> > experience (.desktop file), then it is not GNOME that is broken.
> It is somehow like distributing Windows software with a shortcut.
> Thus a package or installer is required.
> But I personally prefer portable applications actually, since I want
> to use new applications even if I'm not root.

Okay, you are now way outside of "normal user".   

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA