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Re: [orca-list] Built in Controls for Espeak Pretty Please with Sugar, cheeries, whatever it takes on top :)

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completely agree with this centiment. I've tried a nmnumber of times
to write specific things I'd like, a daisy reader for linux, improve
orca a bit, and always struck out. I'm either not capable of coding or
it'd take me so long that by the time I was done orca would be
obsolete. It makes a guy want to switch back to windows sometimes,
where you don't have to deal with people who think coding is as easy
as breathing. But linux is so good that the sometimes extremely
frustrating issues with it are better than what windows could offer
me, so I'll stick with it. Just don't expect me to go quietly.


On 08/28/2014 10:33 PM, Alex Midence wrote:

I rest my case.  Beggars can't be choosers, in other words.  It is
the blessing and the curse of free/open source software.  there's
good stuff out there.  If you want a feature to enhance it, be
willing to write it yourself. What's that?  Can't write code?
Learn to.  Can't wrap your head around it?  Not enough time?
You're out of luck then.  In a situation like this,  the beggars
must undergo a metamorphosis and become the employers.  when
someone is on your payroll, you can raise cane and get the feature
you want created.  You can get the source code, decide on what
specifically needs to happen for your feature to take shape, come
up with funding, hire the best coder for the job who will take what
you are willing to pay and then put them to work.

Incidentally, just as devs write this stuff in their free time,
others write documentation for it, promote it, and provide what
amounts to technical support services in theirs.





On 8/28/2014 4:16 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:

I don't think there is hostility, rather people have expressed
there interests and lack of interests. The thing is in a nut
shell, this is free software and most of it is written by people
in there spare time. What I do in my spare time is my business,
and what software I write in my spare time is also my business. I
do not personally think this would be worth my time to write in
my spare time, but If I were hired to do it, I would complete it
like any other job. Everyone here is free to do the same. If
people want it so bad, then use some of the excellent tutorials
on the net and learn the languages, and API structures and write
it. Alternatively, we could come up with a kickstarter project,
and hire someone to do the write with the agreement to open
source the results.

I am not trying to pick on anyone, I am just reminding everyone
that this is free software! This does not mean free of cost
necessarily, rather it means that it is free to use and change or
improve.



On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Alex Midence wrote:


I must admit that I'm surprised at the level of hostility I
have seen with regard to this idea.  In light of it, I honestly
think that nothing short of getting funding and actually hiring
somebody to do it is the only way this will happen.  Such a
pity.  While I think the idea of speech dispatcher is a good
one, unfortunately, all too often, as Rudyard Kippling would've
put it"Desire outruns performance."  When this happens, the
user is left in the lurch completely without speech unless he
or she has console speech or another solution like Emacspeak
installed.

-----Original Message----- From: orca-list
[mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Storm Dragon 
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:24 AM To: Orca-list Subject:
Re: [orca-list] Built in Controls for Espeak Pretty Please with
Sugar, cheeries, whatever it takes on top :)

Howdy, This, like every other issue that is raised here, was
only meant to get a yes or no vote. It shouldn't disintegrate
into a spame/flame/I'm way too busy to care war. Everyone is
busy, we all have lives, and yet, most of us still manage to
get things done on the projects we manage. I'm sure Joanie is
very capable of making her own decisions ragarding what to work
on with Orca, and that if this is something the community
wants, as seems to be the case (something like 5 yes to 2 no so
far), she will at least consider it. It is something I, and
several others, really would like, and adding it would not hurt
the project in any way, and would fix a lot of problems cause
due to the lack of speech-dispatcher's abilities. On Thu, Aug
28, 2014 at 03:02:13PM +1000, Luke Yelavich wrote:

On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 01:48:04PM AEST, Storm Dragon wrote:

Howdy, Nearly every other screen reader has multiple ways
to interact with speech. NVDA has a built in espeak, and
the other nonfree readers have synths as well, I think most
have a built in Eloquence. Never once, have I heard any of
those users complain that their screen reader has entirely
too many ways to talk. Also, as far as I am aware, no one
has ever said "Man, I really wish my screen reader had to
jump through layer after layer of junk to speak."


Just because other screen readers interface directly with a
speech synthesizer doesn't mean Orca should. Orca certainly
has the modularity to allow for different speech systems to
be supported, including a direct eSpeak driver, but given
speech-dispatcher is the only TTS backend supported, that may
very well change in the future.


Speech-dispatcher is ok, for minimal usage, but it crashes
with alsa, has odd puctuation inconsistancies, and is slow
as molasses. The last time development of speech-dispatcher
even reached a snail's pace was when open-speech or
whatever was called was made because people weree 
frustrated with the lack of progress made by
speech-dispatcher. I'm not even asking to replace spd. Let
the people who like it use it. That's one thing that makes
Linux rock, there's usually more than one way to do things.
for some people, speech-dispatcher may be fine. for me,
it's falling rather short.


Yes, speech-dispatcher has some annoying issues that need 
attentionnnnnn. Nobody is denying that, not even me. There
are many things that niggle me about speech-dispatcher too.
However I have not yet been able to find the time and desire
to want to sit down and try and fix them. Perhaps since there
are issues with speech-dispatcher that really annoy you, you
could consider getting involved and help properly identify
sed issues, and maybe even fix them.


Also, with a reliable way to deliver speech,
speech-dispatcher can drag on it its currently abysmally
slow progress, and we can have fully working espeak.
Speech-dispatcher has been around and for a long time now,
and there still not full support for espeak... No way to
use variants, and you have to hack it to use freasonably 
fast espeak.


The only reason speech-dispatcher's development progress is 
abysmally slow is because people cannot currently find the
time to work on it.

For those of you who want a direct eSpeak orca driver, you
will probably have to find someone to write the driver,
probably someone who wants the same thing as you do. I am
sure Joanie could, but I think she has her hands full with
more time consuming stuff, such as keeping up with GNOME's
developments, and keeping up with the ever changing nature of
the web and ensuring users have a sane browsing experience
with Firefox.

As for speech-dispatcher, the issues you have raised are well
known, and need to be addressed. When time allows, either
myself or someone else will work on fixing Speech-dispatcher
not supporting eSpeak synth variants, and fixing the ALSA
driver. Given I work on speech-dispatcher in my spare time,
and given I also have a life and interests outside of my full
time job, I can give no ETA as to when these issues will be
addressed.

Luke _______________________________________________ 
orca-list mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html



The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


-- Powered by Arch Linux! I am registered Linux user number
508465: https://linuxcounter.net/user/508465.html My blog,
Thoughts of a Dragon: http://www.stormdragon.tk/ get my public
PGP key: gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 43DDC193 
How many Internet mail list subscribers does it take to change
a lightbulb? http://goo.gl/eO4PJ "The sound of evil laughter
falls around the world tonight." DragonForce - through the Fire
and Flames

_______________________________________________ orca-list
mailing list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html



The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html



The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
list orca-list gnome org 
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The manual
is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html



The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

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