Re: [orca-list] Built in Controls for Espeak Pretty Please with Sugar, cheeries, whatever it takes on top :)

[Alex Midence <alex midence gmail com>]

I rest my case.  Beggars can't be choosers, in other words.  It is the 
blessing and the curse of free/open source software.  there's good stuff 
out there.  If you want a feature to enhance it, be willing to write it 
yourself. What's that?  Can't write code?  Learn to.  Can't wrap your 
head around it?  Not enough time?  You're out of luck then.  In a 
situation like this,  the beggars must undergo a metamorphosis and 
become the employers.  when someone is on your payroll, you can raise 
cane and get the feature you want created.  You can get the source code, 
decide on what specifically needs to happen for your feature to take 
shape, come up with funding, hire the best coder for the job who will 
take what you are willing to pay and then put them to work.

Incidentally, just as devs write this stuff in their free time, others 
write documentation for it, promote it, and provide what amounts to 
technical support services in theirs.





On 8/28/2014 4:16 PM, Kelly Prescott wrote:
> I don't think there is hostility, rather people have expressed there 
> interests and lack of interests.
> The thing is in a nut shell, this is free software and most of it is 
> written by people in there spare time.
> What I do in my spare time is my business, and what software I write 
> in my spare time is also my business.
> I do not personally think this would be worth my time to write in my 
> spare time, but If I were hired to do it, I would complete it like any 
> other job.
> Everyone here is free to do the same.
> If people want it so bad, then use some of the excellent tutorials on 
> the net and learn the languages, and API structures and write it.
> Alternatively, we could come up with a kickstarter project, and hire 
> someone to do the write with the agreement to open source the results.
>
> I am not trying to pick on anyone, I am just reminding everyone that 
> this is free software!
> This does not mean free of cost necessarily, rather it means that it 
> is free to use and change or improve.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Alex Midence wrote:
>
> > I must admit that I'm surprised at the level of hostility I have seen 
> > with regard to this idea.  In light of it, I honestly think that 
> > nothing short of getting funding and actually hiring somebody to do 
> > it is the only way this will happen.  Such a pity.  While I think the 
> > idea of speech dispatcher is a good one, unfortunately, all too 
> > often, as Rudyard Kippling would've put it"Desire outruns 
> > performance."  When this happens, the user is left in the lurch 
> > completely without speech unless he or she has console speech or 
> > another solution like Emacspeak installed.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of 
> > Storm Dragon
> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 12:24 AM
> > To: Orca-list
> > Subject: Re: [orca-list] Built in Controls for Espeak Pretty Please 
> > with Sugar, cheeries, whatever it takes on top :)
> >
> > Howdy,
> > This, like every other issue that is raised here, was only meant to 
> > get a yes or no vote. It shouldn't disintegrate into a 
> > spame/flame/I'm way too busy to care war. Everyone is busy, we all 
> > have lives, and yet, most of us still manage to get things done on 
> > the projects we manage. I'm sure Joanie is very capable of making her 
> > own decisions ragarding what to work on with Orca, and that if this 
> > is something the community wants, as seems to be the case (something 
> > like 5 yes to 2 no so far), she will at least consider it. It is 
> > something I, and several others, really would like, and adding it 
> > would not hurt the project in any way, and would fix a lot of 
> > problems cause due to the lack of speech-dispatcher's abilities.
> > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 03:02:13PM +1000, Luke Yelavich wrote:
> > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 01:48:04PM AEST, Storm Dragon wrote:
> > > > Howdy,
> > > > Nearly every other screen reader has multiple ways to interact with 
> > > > speech. NVDA has a built in espeak, and the other nonfree readers 
> > > > have synths as well, I think most have a built in Eloquence. Never 
> > > > once, have I heard any of those users complain that their screen 
> > > > reader has entirely too many ways to talk. Also, as far as I am 
> > > > aware, no one has ever said "Man, I really wish my screen reader 
> > > > had to jump through layer after layer of junk to speak."
> > >
> > > Just because other screen readers interface directly with a speech 
> > > synthesizer doesn't mean Orca should. Orca certainly has the 
> > > modularity to allow for different speech systems to be supported, 
> > > including a direct eSpeak driver, but given speech-dispatcher is the 
> > > only TTS backend supported, that may very well change in the future.
> > >
> > > > Speech-dispatcher is ok, for minimal usage, but it crashes with alsa,
> > > > has odd puctuation inconsistancies, and is slow as molasses. The last
> > > > time development of speech-dispatcher even reached a snail's pace was
> > > > when open-speech or whatever was called was made because people weree
> > > > frustrated with the lack of progress made by speech-dispatcher. I'm
> > > > not even asking to replace spd. Let the people who like it use it.
> > > > That's one thing that makes Linux rock, there's usually more than one
> > > > way to do things. for some people, speech-dispatcher may be fine. 
> > > > for me, it's falling rather short.
> > >
> > > Yes, speech-dispatcher has some annoying issues that need 
> > > attentionnnnnn. Nobody is denying that, not even me. There are many 
> > > things that niggle me about speech-dispatcher too. However I have 
> > > not yet been able to find the time and desire to want to sit down 
> > > and try and fix them. Perhaps since there are issues with 
> > > speech-dispatcher that really annoy you, you could consider getting 
> > > involved and help properly identify sed issues, and maybe even fix 
> > > them.
> > >
> > > > Also, with a reliable way to deliver speech, speech-dispatcher can 
> > > > drag on it its currently abysmally slow progress, and we can have 
> > > > fully working espeak. Speech-dispatcher has been around and for a 
> > > > long time now, and there still not full support for espeak... No 
> > > > way to use variants, and you have to hack it to use freasonably 
> > > > fast espeak.
> > >
> > > The only reason speech-dispatcher's development progress is 
> > > abysmally slow is because people cannot currently find the time to 
> > > work on it.
> > >
> > > For those of you who want a direct eSpeak orca driver, you will 
> > > probably have to find someone to write the driver, probably someone 
> > > who wants the same thing as you do. I am sure Joanie could, but I 
> > > think she has her hands full with more time consuming stuff, such as 
> > > keeping up with GNOME's developments, and keeping up with the ever 
> > > changing nature of the web and ensuring users have a sane browsing 
> > > experience with Firefox.
> > >
> > > As for speech-dispatcher, the issues you have raised are well known, 
> > > and need to be addressed. When time allows, either myself or someone 
> > > else will work on fixing Speech-dispatcher not supporting eSpeak 
> > > synth variants, and fixing the ALSA driver. Given I work on 
> > > speech-dispatcher in my spare time, and given I also have a life and 
> > > interests outside of my full time job, I can give no ETA as to when 
> > > these issues will be addressed.
> > >
> > > Luke
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> > > The manual is at
> > > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how
> > > to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> >
> > --
> > Powered by Arch Linux! I am registered Linux user number 508465: 
> > https://linuxcounter.net/user/508465.html
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> > around the world tonight."
> > DragonForce - through the Fire and Flames
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> > The manual is at 
> > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> The manual is at 
> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp