Re: Still need a hint for undecorated windows

[Sasha Vasko <sasha aftercode net>]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:35:51 +0200 Lubos Lunak <l lunak suse cz> babbled:
>> I think I'd agree with Havoc here. Why should it be the app's decision? 
> because possibly within the apps window there is a design or setup that clashes
> with having a visible border. why that is is the app's business imho.

Some application developers forget what the proper approach to the user
interface is. No app can simply request not being decorated and expect
its wish carried out at once. Apps should be able to adapt to whatever
Window Manager's decision is. For example if XMMS starts up and
determines that it still has frame decorations despite all its request
to not have it - it should render a simplier version of its GUI, without
close/minimize buttons and titlebar. Same goes to any other app.
Ultimately, its up to the user wether he/she wants to see a consistent
UI, or allow some sort of an anarchy on the desktop. Applications should
respect this and adapt accordingly, instead of arrogantly belive that
the whole world shares their vision.

Now I do belive that we already have a property allowing applications to
detect if they are decorated or not, which is _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS.

> are ready to adapt to. "why" should be a job for the app developer and his/her
> decisions at the time for their own app. we simply should provide a way to do
> it. if it is as simple as declaring mwm hints (if present) are an explcit
> decoration setting and will override window type - then so be it. i definitely
> would fall to that side myself - in fact that is what i have already implemented
> and will likely not change the behavior as such.

As far as adding a property to request no frame decor, I think Motif
hints are perfectly good, having an advantage of completely covering the
purpose and being around for long enought for ppl to take notice. Quite
honestly I think that any WM concious of user wishes, should provide
configuration means for user to define what apps should and should not
get decorations.

Piling up yet another property seems like a redundancy, and it has even
lesser sense as it will not guarantee an app anything anyway.

So to summ it all up : 1) App should attempt and request no decorations
using Motif hints. 2) User should be able to define which apps should be
 undecorated and which should not. 3) App MUST check if it really is
undecorated using _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS, prior to rendering its funky
interface. 4) If window manager don't support _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS - tough
- application should accept its fate and allow WM to decorate it.

Its getting kinda silly with all the apps trying to push window managers
around in order to implement some funky ideas of theirs.

Sasha Vasko