Re: Still need a hint for undecorated windows

[Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster rasterman com>]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:35:09 -0500 Sasha Vasko <sasha aftercode net> babbled:

> Some application developers forget what the proper approach to the user
> interface is. No app can simply request not being decorated and expect
> its wish carried out at once. Apps should be able to adapt to whatever

that's life in x with a wm - always. no app can send a configure request to
move/resize and expect to get their wish either- same with titlebar, stacking,
etc. etc. they are merely hints and suggestions. i think we all agree that we
are already dealing with a world of vagaries as-is. we merely want to make those
vagaries more... defined :)

> As far as adding a property to request no frame decor, I think Motif
> hints are perfectly good, having an advantage of completely covering the
> purpose and being around for long enought for ppl to take notice. Quite
> honestly I think that any WM concious of user wishes, should provide
> configuration means for user to define what apps should and should not
> get decorations.
> 
> Piling up yet another property seems like a redundancy, and it has even
> lesser sense as it will not guarantee an app anything anyway.

agreed - even though it is not as clean - i'd go for just being more explicit on
the mwm vs netwm property priorities with regards to explicit decoration
requests and be done with it.

> So to summ it all up : 1) App should attempt and request no decorations
> using Motif hints. 2) User should be able to define which apps should be
>  undecorated and which should not. 3) App MUST check if it really is
> undecorated using _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS, prior to rendering its funky
> interface. 4) If window manager don't support _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS - tough
> - application should accept its fate and allow WM to decorate it.
> 
> Its getting kinda silly with all the apps trying to push window managers
> around in order to implement some funky ideas of theirs.

not any more so than they already do - its just a matter of configure requests
really that a wm should be handling anyway (one way or another) :)

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster rasterman com
裸好多                              raster deephackmode org
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)