Re: Still need a hint for undecorated windows

On Thursday 23 of June 2005 16:35, Sasha Vasko wrote:
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
> > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:35:51 +0200 Lubos Lunak <l lunak suse cz> babbled:
> > are ready to adapt to. "why" should be a job for the app developer and
> > his/her decisions at the time for their own app. we simply should provide
> > a way to do it. if it is as simple as declaring mwm hints (if present)
> > are an explcit decoration setting and will override window type - then so
> > be it. i definitely would fall to that side myself - in fact that is what
> > i have already implemented and will likely not change the behavior as
> > such.
> As far as adding a property to request no frame decor, I think Motif
> hints are perfectly good, having an advantage of completely covering the
> purpose and being around for long enought for ppl to take notice. Quite
> honestly I think that any WM concious of user wishes, should provide
> configuration means for user to define what apps should and should not
> get decorations.
> Piling up yet another property seems like a redundancy, and it has even
> lesser sense as it will not guarantee an app anything anyway.
> So to summ it all up : 1) App should attempt and request no decorations
> using Motif hints. 2) User should be able to define which apps should be
>  undecorated and which should not. 3) App MUST check if it really is
> undecorated using _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS, prior to rendering its funky
> interface. 4) If window manager don't support _NET_FRAME_EXTENTS - tough
> - application should accept its fate and allow WM to decorate it.
> Its getting kinda silly with all the apps trying to push window managers
> around in order to implement some funky ideas of theirs.

 Hmm, very well said. I think Sasha more or less expressed very well what I 
mean (hey, willing to work as a spokesperson for me? the pay sucks 
though ;) ).

 We already have a hint for this, the Motif hint. I'd say pretty much every 
reasonable WM supports it anyway. If not, the WM can be blamed. The WM can 
also allow the user to turn the decorations off for specific windows. If not, 
the WM can be blamed. What I'd prefer to avoid is having some kind of an 
official blessing for borderless windows by including a special hint in the 

 I mean, which windows do really need it, besides those with special window 
type? If we do include such hint, we won't have just xmms and gkrellm but 
many more, and at least some of those will be abuses. Then at least some WMs 
will eventually get an option to ignore this hint for some windows, and 
that's pretty much the same like having an option in the WM for not adding 
border to that window.

Lubos Lunak
KDE developer
SuSE CR, s.r.o.  e-mail: l lunak suse cz , l lunak kde org
Drahobejlova 27  tel: +420 2 9654 2373
190 00 Praha 9   fax: +420 2 9654 2374
Czech Republic

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