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Re: Orca on laptops.

Hi Will;
I think this is basically what I and other contributors meant by "remapping" CapsLock. I would consider using the XKB client API for this instead, in case xmodmap is not in the path (anyhow, I think XKB is the preferred interface for modifying the keyboard map on XKB-aware systems). Some of the XKB client settings also allow clients to tell the Xserver to "reset" to defaults when the client exist, which would make the restoration of 'normal' CapsLock behavior robust even if orca were killed with Ctrl-C or crashed - not sure if the key-remapping APIs are among those - perhaps you do, since I recall you having participated in the development of XKB :smile: 

Bill

Willie Walker wrote:

Hi All:

I've been watching mostly from the sidelines because I wanted to hear
from our users before injecting my opinions and such (except mainly for
expressing the opinion that I want to hear from our users ;-)).  What
I'm hearing is that using the Caps_Lock key as the Orca "modifier key"
is an absolute requirement and we should do what we can to make it
happen.

I believe the main problem with the Caps_Lock key is not if we can use
it as the Orca modifier or not.  We can.  The main problem, however, is
that once the user touches the Caps_Lock key, the Lock *modifier* will
still be locked and unlocked.  This presents a serious usability
problem.

I did little experimenting, and I believe we have a simple solution for
this problem.  Having worked on the X Window System since the late
1980's, I'm not sure why this didn't come to me earlier.  The X Windows
System offers a command called "xmodmap" that allows you to muck with
modifier mappings.  For example, the following command will prevent the
Caps_Lock key from acting as a locking key: 
  xmodmap -e "clear Lock"

And, for those that want their Caps_Lock behavior back, the following
command restores it:

  xmodmap -e "add Lock = Caps_Lock"

We can use this to solve our problem.  When Orca starts up, it can check
the orcaModifierKeys setting.  If the list includes Caps_Lock, Orca can
execute the magic xmodmap command to clear its locking/unlocking
behavior. 
The only issue here is cleanliness and restoring the xmodmap to what it
was before Orca changed it.  I'm not sure this is a big concern.  The
reason is that I assume Orca is going to be something that the user runs
all the time to access their Desktop.

Attached is a patch to orca.py from GNOME CVS HEAD for anyone wants to
play around with this.  You'll need to apply this patch (patch -p0 <
caplock.patch) and you'll need to add/edit the following line to your
~/.orca/user-settings.py (can get blown away) or your
~/.orca/orca-customizations.py (will not get blown away) file:

orca.settings.orcaModifierKeys = ['Caps_Lock']

Btw, you can also do the following if you want both Insert and Caps_Lock
as the Orca modifier key:

orca.settings.orcaModifierKeys = ['Caps_Lock', 'Insert', 'KP_Insert']

Let me know if this works for you.  If it does, we can make it a
permanent part of Orca.

Will

On Thu, 2006-11-09 at 09:48 +0000, Bill Haneman wrote:
Makes sense, with the caveat that if we remap CapsLock to achieve this (as we probably must, to avoid the latching behavior), then the end user will no longer be able to use CapsLock in the "normal" way. Probably that is not a significant issue for 99% of the users. I agree with Will's point that we should be thinking user-centrically in most of our discussion; however the point I made about remapping being more intrusive as a technique still applies. The use of CapsLock is, as Will pointed out in an earlier email, somewhat less clean and ideal technically than using some other modifier key. This is because, unlike the other keys, use of CapsLock is inherently "modal" (changes the X keyboard state in a "sticky" way) unless the CapsLock key is re-mapped to some other X keyboard symbol. 
Bill

Janina Sajka wrote:

Bill Haneman writes:
Thanks Will. That clarifies things somewhat - we're using the term "modifier key" differently. Maybe I'll contact you offlist for info on the internal details.
So does that basically mean this whole discussion of orca on laptops is moot, or at least addressed fully via orca.settings.orcaModifierKeys (possibly with a UI for changing it easily) ? 

Bill


I shouldn't think so. This discussion has already pointed out that
CapsLock is the established default modifier for JFW users on Windows
and for Speakup users on Linux. Furthermore, it is reasonable to expect
that no new application is likely to adopt CapsLock for it's own uses,
i.e. we run the least risk of conflict both today and tomorrow by
defaulting to CapsLock as the default Orca laptop modifier.

Of course, the fact that this is established practice and widely
expected by users both on Windows and Linux should really end this
discussion, from the user point of view.  Choosing anything else will
certainly cause continuing confusion and displeasure among users, so
there'd need to be extremely powerful arguments to choose anything else.
I haven't heard arguments yet in this thread that strike me as
sufficiently convincing to look for some other modifier. 
It's available, achievable and remappable, and it's what users expect.
What else do we need to put this one to bed?

Janina



Willie Walker wrote:

Hi All:

I don't think there's a need to map an existing X modifier to the Orca
modifier.  Orca invents its own modifier internally and allows any key
to act as the Orca modifier.  That's why Insert and KP_Insert can act as
the Orca modifier key.  As such, I'm not sure "which modifier" is an
important discussion to have.

Will


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------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

Index: orca/src/orca/orca.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/gnome/orca/src/orca/orca.py,v
retrieving revision 1.165
diff -p -u -r1.165 orca.py
--- orca/src/orca/orca.py       7 Nov 2006 19:19:01 -0000       1.165
+++ orca/src/orca/orca.py       9 Nov 2006 14:44:10 -0000
@@ -857,6 +857,10 @@ def loadUserSettings(script=None, inputE
         debug.println(debug.LEVEL_CONFIGURATION,
                       "Magnification module has NOT been initialized.")
+ for keyName in settings.orcaModifierKeys: 
+        if keyName == "Caps_Lock":
+            os.system('xmodmap -e "clear Lock"')
+
     _showMainWindowGUI()
httpserver.init()
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