Re: [orca-list] Clickable table rows on the web

[Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>]

Hey Peter.

Since I'm not sure what the problem is, it's hard for me to know where
you should look.

If you save the entire page locally, can you reproduce the problem? If
so, you might be able to edit that down to something more manageable.

Also, is flat review and clicking not working for you at all on this site?

--joanie

On 4/25/19 2:19 PM, Peter Vágner via orca-list wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> My simple test case is working great however that banking site is not.
>
>
> The problem is that they are attaching their click handlers dynamically
> based off of CSS classes so I can't just rip a part of the site into a
> file in an attempt to create more realistic test case.
>
> What shal I be looking for when reading debug file?
>
>
> Another observation. The table row and all the text node children have
> click action.
>
> Might it be more useful to click such a child node instead?
>
>
> Greetings
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> Dňa 25. 4. 2019 o 13:39 Joanmarie Diggs napísal(a):
> > It turned out that an object was going defunct on us and Orca was
> > spitting up rather than handling it gracefully. I fixed that issue and
> > now things are working as expected. Please let me know if it works for
> > you as well.
> >
> > --joanie
> >
> > On 4/25/19 7:34 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > > Huh. Ok, will take a look. Thanks!
> > > --joanie
> > >
> > > On 4/25/19 12:57 AM, Peter Vágner via orca-list wrote:
> > > > Hello Joanie,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for my spam related to this however I have discovered we are
> > > > missing something.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > These table rows are correctly being presented as clickables. These are
> > > > also displayed in the list of clickables.
> > > >
> > > > However finding a clickable in the list and hitting activate does
> > > > nothing on these table rows.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I haven't figured out more yet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greetings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dňa 24. 4. 2019 o 13:44 Peter Vágner via orca-list napísal(a):
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > It might be doable to add a unbound script that will either click the
> > > > > active object if clickable or descend its ancestry to find out nearest
> > > > > clickable parent and perform the click.
> > > > >
> > > > > Originally I've assumed such functionality is not needed as flat
> > > > > review mouse emulation is very usefull and getting better and better
> > > > > but this will also work on wayland and consider a case where container
> > > > > is clickable rather than the element with the actual content.
> > > > > These container elements have just recently been removed from the flat
> > > > > review presentation that makes the flat review output even more
> > > > > awesome to read.
> > > > >
> > > > > That is something I like as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > I apologize to Nolan and all other people who have requested this
> > > > > feature in the past and I have commented against it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Greetings
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dňa April 24, 2019 7:33:00 AM UTC používateľ "Arkadiusz Kozioł"
> > > > > <zywek-mailing nvps pl> napísal:
> > > > >
> > > > >      Is it possible to do click this object such as in nvda, withour
> > > > >      pressing alt+shift+a and hit Activate button?
> > > > >      W dniu 23.04.2019 o 22:36, Peter Vágner via orca-list pisze:
> > > > > >      Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Sometimes I am coming up with strange web authoring issues
> > > > > >      captured from the wild of the web.
> > > > > >      Now it's another of such a rare moments.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Sometimes web app authors tend to use HTML tables instead of
> > > > > >      lists to create multi column list like widgets.
> > > > > >      When they are creating such widgets it's still quite common that
> > > > > >      keyboard access ends up not implemented.
> > > > > >      With such a widget table rows are resembling items of an
> > > > > >      interactive list. Clicking the table row either selects the item
> > > > > >      or activates it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      What I have just found out is that orca does not list clickable
> > > > > >      table rows and possibly another page elements as clickables. And
> > > > > >      it neither presents these in the list of clickable elements.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      When considering clickables orca examines if an object is not
> > > > > >      focusable and is not a so called focus mode widget.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Typical focus mode widgets are text entries, comboboxes, list
> > > > > >      boxes, slider, spin button and similar. These are easy because
> > > > > >      their are usually actionable from the keyboard out of the box.
> > > > > >      When looking at orca web script utilities, Table cell, table row
> > > > > >      and list item are also focus mode widgets. Most likelly I can't
> > > > > >      imagine all the use cases my-self and I can't describe why that
> > > > > >      is a good idea.
> > > > > >      However these should only be considered focus mode widgets when
> > > > > >      they either receive focus or claim that their are able to
> > > > > > receive
> > > > > >      focus.
> > > > > >      When this is used for switching focus vs browse mode after
> > > > > >      receiving an event this is all fine.
> > > > > >      However when looking for clickables we are currently looking for
> > > > > >      not focusable objects as well as for objects that are not focus
> > > > > >      mode widgets.
> > > > > >      I think this needs reconsideration because if a widget can be
> > > > > >      considered focus mode widget it should be focusable and keyboard
> > > > > >      controllable. And when looking for clickables we are naturally
> > > > > >      looking for not focusable elements.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      I know this needs more thinking however I'd like to be able to
> > > > > >      click on such clickable table rows in the online banking web app
> > > > > >      I am currently using it's why I have started this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      I have attached a little example document showcasing what I am
> > > > > >      looking for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Can this be reconsidered or can you suggest something else?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      I know this is perhaps very rare and is certainly an authoring
> > > > > >      issue rather than orca issue however it really drives me crazy
> > > > > >      when paying my bills each month.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      I have already contacted my bank technical support about this
> > > > > >      however nothing has changed for a few months so I'm trying my
> > > > > >      luck here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      BTW a lot of people in the central europe might be affected by
> > > > > >      this. At least this banking app called George is knowingly being
> > > > > >      used in Slovakia, Czech republic, Austria, Romania and Croatia
> > > > > >      and perhaps more countries to follow.
> > > > > >      Unfortunatelly accessibilitywise it has a lot of unimplemented
> > > > > >      features i.e. menus do have aria markup but lack keyboard
> > > > > >      controls. Form navigation is altered significantly. Links and
> > > > > >      buttons are not activatable via the keyboard. Some decorative
> > > > > >      images have text descriptions and interactive image controls may
> > > > > >      miss those and similar.
> > > > > >      Heh but look at their web site how cool their marketing looks
> > > > > >      like :P  https://george-labs.com/
> > > > > >      Most of its defects can be worked around by existing orca
> > > > > >      features however I am unable to compensate for that broken
> > > > > >      accessibility implementation of their transfers list using HTML
> > > > > >      table with clickable rows under the hood.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Excuse me for the rant and thanks for the help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Greetings
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      Peter
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      _______________________________________________
> > > > > >      orca-list mailing list
> > > > > >      orca-list gnome org
> > > > > >      https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > >      Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > >      Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > >      GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > >      Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > >
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Odoslané z môjho Android zariadenia prostredníctvom K-9 Mail. Prosím,
> > > > > ospravedlňte moju stručnosť.
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org