Re: [orca-list] [Testers wanted before the official release] Slint64-4.2.1 release candidate is accessible.

[Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>]

Earlier on slackware this was before Kernel 2.26 I had slacky up and 
working and orca was talking.  This is work done if I have this right 
done in Italy.  I don't even know if slacky is still alive or not but 
that may be a viable possibility if it is still under active support.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017, Didier Spaier wrote:

> Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 10:51:10
> From: Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>
> To: Peter V?gner <pvdeejay gmail com>
> Cc: orca-list <orca-list gnome org>, Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] [Testers wanted before the official release]
>     Slint64-4.2.1 release candidate is accessible.
>
> Hello,
>
> Le 26/10/2017 ? 21:56, Peter V?gner a ?crit :> Hello,
> > Yes lightdm is awesome. You can build gtk greeter against gtk+2 and it
> > should work fine.
> > However if you are going to package lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.x or any
> > revision after r312 but earlier than light-dmlight-dm-gtk-greeter
> > 2.0.3re comes my fail-gtk-greeter 2.0.3 then please do look at thi
> > bug report possibly applying a patch...
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1483864
>
> I have installed the greeter 2.O.3 so I didn't need the patch.
>
> Nevertheless, I am sorry to say that here come my failure report.
>
> I have built and installed lightdm, the gtk greeter and its setting gui.
> Dependencies also built installed as not shipped in Slint:
> pam, dep of lightdm
> python3-distutils-extra, dep of lightdm-gtk-greeter,
>
> All packages are in the directories below, with their names ending in
> slint.txz and can be installed with installpkg or spkg.
>
> http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/pam/
> http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/lightdm/
> http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/
> http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/python3-distutils-extra/
> http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/
>
> I have cloned the repo below not to reinvent the wheel and made a few
> modifications:
> https://github.com/idnux/idnux_slackbuilds
> I was leaded there by this blog post frm an Indonesian Slackware user:
> https://catatanidnux.wordpress.com/2017/05/26/memasang-lightdm-di-slackware-linux/
>
> I start lightdm, the greeer configures using the GUI, set accessibility
> from reader with orca and lightdm works but... No sound!
> In the greeters' log I saw /usr/lib/at-spi2-core/at-spi-bus-launcher not
> found, so I copied it there from /usr/libexec/at-spi-bus-launcher, then
> restarted lightdm. It still complained about upstart missing but I guess
> that's not our problem.
>
> Rather, there seems to be an issue with starting at-spi2, as I also
> noticed that from the graphical environment I couldn't start orca
> either, with an error message about at-spi-2 not started.
>
> Then instead I installed gdm-2.20.11 with slapt-get coming from a Salix
> repo. I think that Salix maintainer built this old version as any newer
> would need too many gnome deps and gnome is shipped neither in Salix nor
> in Slint. This one needs only libgnomecanvas-2.30.3, also installed by
> slapt-get as a dep.
>
> gdm works as well as lightdm but... Still no sound.
>
> And no sound in a graphical environment started with gdm either. I get
> error messages very similar as when using lightdm when I try to start
> orca manually in the graphical environment, so that can't be an issue
> with pam (that I had removed before installing gdm):
> cut here
> didier[~]$ orca
>
> ** (orca:1623): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible 
> causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the 
> reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
>
> ** (orca:1623): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible 
> causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the 
> reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
>
> ** (orca:1623): ERROR **: AT-SPI: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus. Is at-spi-bus-launcher running?
> Trappe pour point d'arr?t et de trace
> didier[~]$ /usr/libexec/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
>
> ** (at-spi2-registryd:1627): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. 
> Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked 
> the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
> didier[~]$
> cut here
>
> I assume that if I can get lightdm to speak I can also get gdm to speak;
> and on second thought I would prefer that as a last minute addition of
> pam to slint could be risky.
>
> If someone wants to try either gdm or ligtdm, in addition to installing
> the packages it is necessary to edit the top /etc/rc.d/rc.4 to include
> a code snippet starting it, as is done with its siblings.
>
> But I have no idea how a blind person can test a non accessible display
> manager...
>
> Of course any clue, including how to investigate further, is warmly
> welcome, knowing that the a11y environment parameters are now set in
> /etc/profile.d/orca.sh instead as in ~/.profile, so there are set in
> root's environment when starting gdm or lightdm as well as in regular
> users' environments.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Didier
>
> > 2017-10-26 21:41 GMT+02:00 Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Le 26/10/2017 ? 19:14, Peter V?gner a ?crit :
> > > > Yes arch linux also includes all the accessibility stuff in the
> > > > /etc/profile.d. I was thinking about it but I have never suggested it
> > > > as I was not sure it's appropriate for slint too.
> > >
> > > It's up to us all to decide what's appropriate for Slint ;)
> > >
> > > If that doesn't hurt we could set these parameters in
> > > /etc/profile.d/orca.sh
> > > as this won't hurt users who don't want speech as long as orca is
> > > not started, right?
> > >
> > > > Also I like an approach where you will use
> > > > ~/.config/autostart/startorca.desktop as a check instead of
> > > > ~/.config/startorca.
> > >
> > > Actually we won't have to check anything, if orca is started by
> > > ~/.config/startorca.desktop and the parameters are already set in
> > > /etc/profile.d/orca.sh
> > >
> > > > However I am not sure on the
> > > > Hidden=true
> > > > desktop entry line. I think this won't disable the app from starting. It
> > > > will only hide it from the menus won't it?
> > >
> > > This is the main effect, but it also prevents autostart
> > > as stated by the Desktop Application Autostart Specification:
> > > cut here
> > > > When the .desktop file has the Hidden key set to true, the .desktop
> > > > file MUST be ignored. When multiple .desktop files with the same name
> > > > exists in multiple directories then only the Hidden key in the most
> > > > important .desktop file must be considered: If it is set to true all
> > > > .desktop files with the same name in the other directories MUST be
> > > > ignored as well.
> > > cut here
> > >
> > > If we end up putting startorca.desktop only in ~/.config/autostart/
> > > not in /etc/xdg/autostart, this will still be useful, e.g; if the user
> > > wanats to disable speech for som reason but alos easily get it back.
> > >
> > > > Also I think xdg stuff should be configured the same way no mather if
> > > > accessibility is requested or not.
> > >
> > > Yes if that has no adverse effect for users who do not want speech
> > > which I assume. i will make some tests to be sure.
> > >
> > > Also, as if I understand well lightdm is accessible with orca, lighter
> > > and with less dependencies than recent versions of gdm, I will try it
> > > with a gtk greeter.
> > >
> > > Of course I'll let you know the outcome.
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Didier
> > >
> > > > 2017-10-26 18:41 GMT+02:00 Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Jude,
> > > > >
> > > > > Le 26/10/2017 ? 17:55, Jude DaShiell a ?crit :
> > > > > > I like your second possible solution.  Sighted users on the
> > > > > > debian-users list complained loudly when a single beep was included to
> > > > > > let everyone know when it was time to enter boot parameters in a
> > > > > > debian boot so that got removed.  This will accommodate them and us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. And maybe even better....
> > > > >
> > > > > Do put startorca.desktop in ~/.config/autostart but also put the a11y
> > > > > parameters settings in ~/.profile like this:
> > > > > cut here
> > > > > export PAGER=/usr/bin/most
> > > > > export GROFF_ENCODING=UTF-8
> > > > > export XDG_CACHE_HOME=/dev/shm/$(whoami)
> > > > > mkdir -p /dev/shm/$(whoami)
> > > > > chmod 700 /dev/shm/$(whoami)
> > > > > export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=$XDG_CACHE_HOME
> > > > > export LOGNAME="GDM"
> > > > > export SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN="gtk"
> > > > > export GTK_MODULES="gail:atk-bridge" # for GTK2
> > > > > export GNOME_ACCESSIBILITY=1
> > > > > export QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 # for QT4
> > > > > export QT_LINUX_ACCESSIBILITY_ALWAYS_ON=1 # for QT5
> > > > > cut here
> > > > >
> > > > > This way we wouldn't have to modify any xinitrc.*, so an user adding a
> > > > > third party graphical environment would get speech and or braille
> > > > > without having to do a post install configuration.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have made a few tests, that seems to work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other benefit, this makes graphical environments also accessible in run
> > > > > level 4, i.e. using a display manager.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an incentive for me to get gdm to be accessible in Slint. If I
> > > > > can succeed, maybe we could pretend that Slint is as much
> > > > > accessible as a Linux distribution can be...
> > > > >
> > > > > Greetings,
> > > > >
> > > > > Didier

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