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Re: [orca-list] [Testers wanted before the official release] Slint64-4.2.1 release candidate is accessible.

Hello,

Le 18/10/2017 à 16:26, Peter Vágner a écrit :

The initial setup needs about 11GB of disk space, so for one time testing
at least 12 GB of disk space on the primary partition is required.


Yes. However, in the released version KDE will be optional. Not
installing it will free 1,2G


As Dave pointed out when the setup wizard shows list of services,
checkboxes are emulated in a way that unchecked item is prepended with ( )
- just a space inside parentheses and checked item is prepended with (*) -
a star punctuation inside parentheses. This star is not read by default
with espeakup, so it's why we haven't discovered it.
Perhaps changing the star to capital X would be a more noticeable and still
common choice here.

Thanks for reporting, I will try to enhance that.


I managed to exit the setup not gracefully. If you wish to reproduce that,
try doing the following:
- Run setup
- Choose the target partion
- Formatting does not matter here
- Continue with source selection and configure the setup to autodetect the
install disk in your CD rom drive.
* When it asks if you are ready to install selected packages answer no.
- Now from the initial setup menu, choose configure your linux system.
The setup will display a lot of errors exiting with no ability to save what
has just been configured.
Is that item configure your linux system usefull in some stage i.e. can it
be started manually?


The main use case of the installer is to install the system. Other use
cases include re-configuring an already installed system. To do that you
would perform the TARGET step just to identify the root partition (will
be mounted as /mnt), skip the SOURCE and INSTALL steps and then go
directly to CONFIGURE. But of course configuring a not yet installed
system is very hard ;)
 

When booting the installed system, lilo OS selection is displayed by
default eventhough linux is the only installed choice. I think there is no
timeout configured or it might be quite long. I have used OCRDesktop to
discover this. I think this should be put into the accessibility
documentation in slightly more details.


There is a timeout but it is very long by default (two minutes). I
consider reducing it to, say, 15 seconds. Would that be OK? I will also
document that.

The default timeout is set because it would complicate things to set one
only in case of multi boot I guess (I write I guess because the Slint
installer is a modification of the Slackware installer). 


Some lxde pannels are accessible with the flat review. However it appears
the desktop is not configured. Wouldn't it be more awesome if PCManFM would
be configured to provide the desktop? That way we would get inaccessible
pannels but very accessible gnome 2 style desktop that would receive the
focus when all apps are closed.


I would be grateful for guidance on how to do that. I am a complete
beginner in the field of accessibility, with zero experience as I see.


Now when starting orca after the X session launch it just says Screen
reader on with nothing else. The only way on how to start working with the
system in this point is pressing alt+F1.


Well, you can also press all+F2 to get a Run dialog, and also have a
terminal focused when going graphical. To get that just type as regular
user, for instance:
cp /usr/share/applications/lxterminal.desktop ~/.config/autostart


Perhaps this is something I have got used to and other people would not
prefer that, this is something to talk about only at this point.

Also we might be missing some environment variables or other usefull
configuration as no KDE apps are accessible. I know KDE is not known for
its accessibility related progress however at least basic accessibility
should be there e.g. as the application window are opened and closed, flat
review in some parts of the UI and similar. With this distro KDE apps don't
seem to emit accessibility events at all. I will be playing a bit more with
this to possible find this out.


Well, I was not able get any KDE accessibility compiling and installing
qt-at-spi. I would be glad for any example of a distribution with
KDE-4.14 accessible.

The environment variables when running startx are taken fram this code
snippet:
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/orca/orca.snip
Dos that seem OK?



I haven't yet tried other GUI environments however I have expected lxde to
be the most accessible out of the included ones.


XFCE may be more accessible.


I must say I was hoping
for something new perhaps inspiring so I could possibly borrow to my light
weight Arch linux setup with ratpoison and strichnine.
The only think I will consider adopting from this is F1 popup menu as it
appears it's awesome and portable.
Other than that I'll stick to the PCManFM desktop / SpaceFM desktop - still
in an unfinished state here in my local git repo.

Thanks for the awesome stuff.


Greetings

Peter


Thank you.

Greetings

Didier



2017-10-18 1:55 GMT+02:00 Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>:


I found nmtui works better and is how I got my wifi network up and running.
On Tue, 17 Oct 2017, Didier Spaier wrote:

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 17:58:10

From: Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>
To: orca-list <orca-list gnome org>
Subject: Re: [orca-list] [Testers wanted before the official release]
    Slint64-4.2.1 release candidate is accessible.

Hello David,

Le 17/10/2017 ? 23:24, David Hunt a ?crit?:


I didn't see a way to control what desktops got installed; got them all,
it looks like.



Yes, see my answer to Peter

 I think I'll remove the ones I don't want.




I think I'll remove the ones I don't want.

Seriously having. software that you don't use don't hurt in any way.

You will only free a few MB on your hard disk or SSD.


Thanks for offering the Network Manager option at install time! Once my
graphical setup got running, I exercised this option and setup my wifi in
the connections editor, since the lx panel and dashboard are still
inaccessible.? For those wanting to setup network manager outside the gui
session, I think there is a tool called nmcli or nmtui?



Both nmtui and nmcli are provided as well as nmtui-connect, nmtui-edit
and nm-tui hostname, nmconnection-editor and nm-online.

Using the default lxde, I find no way to switch among the windows for the

running applications.? Using 'alt+tab' seems to take focus from the top
application window, but does not seem to focus a new window.? Pressing any
key returns focus to the window from which I meant to move.? If I'm reading
this correctly, fvwm is the window manager for the default gui session?? Is
there another key to use?



Assuming that you have several windows opened, in LXDE with fvwm you need
to press 'alt+tab' at least twice to focus to another window.
Cheers,
Didier




On 10/17/2017 04:42 PM, Peter V?gner wrote:


Hello,

I have booted the iso image in qemu.
The initial boot process as well as the text based setup are both very
intuitive and perfectly useable with speakup.
Have I skipped accidentally some parts of the setup process or is the
setup script installing all the desktop environments? e.g. lxde, kde and I
think xfce got all installed for me.
I will have to redo the install or tinker with it a bit more manually
as the setup script failed to install lilo boot loader for me. I think that
is because I am running all this inside qemu with virtio support turned on.
My root partition is /dev/vda1 however lilo is insisting on /dev/sda1 as
the root. The same goes for boot loader install. I wish it to be installed
to MBR (/dev/vda) however it's attempted to get installed into /dev/sda. I
will have to disable virtio and try one more time. Just out of interest. Is
there a way to install grub instead of lilo?

I will test more tommorow. Hopefully I will manage to test out
graphical environments by that time.

Thanks and greetings

Peter


2017-10-17 22:27 GMT+02:00 Didier Spaier <didier slint fr <mailto:
didier slint fr>>:

??? Hello,

??? Le 17/10/2017 ? 21:04, Peter V?gner a ?crit :> The links to the
??? readme and accessibility related hints should be
??? > http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/iso/README
??? <http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/iso/README>
??? > http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/iso/ACCESSIBILITY
??? <http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/iso/ACCESSIBILITY>
??? That's right, thanks for the heads up and sorry for the bad links.


??? > I am going to do more testing now however eventhough I have read
??? the linked
??? > material and wiki pages at slint.fr <http://slint.fr> I am still
??? a bit confused on how to
??? > install this with speech with no braille display connected.
??? > Assuming I would like to install in english can I just boot off
??? the iso
??? > image, press the enter key and wait for the speech to activate?
??? Yes: speech and braille are both activated by default in the
??? installer.
??? The first thing you should hear is this message:
??? cut here
??? This installer has speech and Braille device support in order to be
??? accessible to visually impaired users. To have speech turned on
during
??? installation type S, then press [Enter]. Else, just press Enter.
??? cut here

??? > In the readme we are advised not to start graphical interface on
??? boot when
??? > targetting accessibility but stay in the terminal. Does this
??? also apply for
??? > the first boot while about to install?The installer is text only.

??? > How do you handle accessibility when running lightweight
??? environments such
??? > as fluxbox, blackbox Fvwm, WindowMaker?All graphical
??? environments have a panel with an application menu
??? to which you can give the focus pressing? Alt+F1. This is lxpanel,
but
??? in XFCE, and in MATE if you install it.

??? > Is PCManFM configured to provide the desktop?In LXDE only.

??? > When starting menu / pannel / run dialog with the provided
keyboard
??? > shortcuts are there the same apps launched from within each
??? desktop or how
??? > did you manage to provide good level of accessibility in all
??? these cases?
??? Application menus are the same in all lightweight environments
??? (the one
??? plugged in lxpanel, and is accessible, as well as the application
menu
??? in the panels of XFCE, and MATE if yu sintall it, (see below).

??? The run dialog I use in lightweight environments is xfrun4, which is
??? accessible, as well as the run dialog of MATE.

??? I don't think that the icons in the panel, including the
??? notification area
??? be accessible.

??? All logout dials used (mostly lxlogout and wm-logout) are
accessible.

??? > When pressing alt+tab to switch windows does orca report the
window
??? > switching to, i.e. do I know which window I am switching to
??? before the
??? > actual switch is performed? So I can switch to my window of
??? choice without
??? > cycling over all of currently opened windows until the one I wish
to
??? > activate gains the focus.Alas, no.
??? This is possible in MATE though, that you can install with these
??? commands typed as root:
??? slapt-get -u
??? slapt-get --install-set mate

??? However as MATE comes from a Salix repo you will need to insert as
??? root
??? the code snippet /usr/share/orca/orca.snip
??? just after this line:
??? # Start the window manager:in /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.mate
??? I will automatize that before the official release.

??? > You have mentioned that the control center is not yet accessible
??? because
??? > that's a QT4 app. To certain extend QT4 apps can be accessed
??? with orca when
??? > qt-at-spi is installed alongside QT 4.8 or are there
??? accessibility issues
??? > beyond the QT4 accessibility support as provided by the qt-at-spi?

??? I tried to install qt-at-spi alongside qt-4.8.7 that is shipped in
??? Slint, to no avail.

??? > I apologise for a lot of questions even before trying the distro
??? however
??? > the fact main stream project aims such level of accessibility
??? sounds very
??? > exciting to me. Given the fact the distro appears to be oriented
on
??? > lightweight software it should run great with awesome
??? performance too. And
??? > that is one more reason to make some good use of it.

??? You have no reason to apologize. On the contrary I am thankful for
??? your
??? questions, that hopefully can lead to enhancements.

??? Greetings,

??? Didier





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_______________________________________________

orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/g
nome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org



--

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/g
nome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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