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Re: [orca-list] What the actual status with GNOME Shell 3.2 accessibility support?

I also have had issues trying to deal with GTK+ accessibility.  In
short, I gave up.  I'm not surprised Ubuntu has had so many problems
working with Gnome.  I wonder how much of a factor that was in
Ubuntu's decision to port Unity to QT.  Unity 2D is QT based.

I'm trying to figure out what desktop environment to use over the next
several months leading up to Ubuntu 12.04 LTE release and Vinux 4.0
which I expect to be based on it.  I'm currently running Oneiric
64-bit with Unity.  Unity has real problems working with Orca, but I
think that contributions we make to Unity in terms of bug fixes and
a11y enhancements will be included.  I think we can help get it their
in time.  I have not had that experience with Gnome, and I have little
faith that our efforts will in any way impact Gnome accessibility.
What desktop environment would you guys recommend?

Other factors in favor of QT are:

- It is simply a better GUI programming toolkit.  Less code is
required for a better GUI, and that code is more readable and easier
to write.
- It is far more portable.  Lately, I've become much more interested
in cross-platform accessibility.

I'm currently finding Unity 2D dosn't work with compiz, andy it's not
accessible to Orca on my Oneiric 64-bit installation.  Is this what
others are finding, and are there any known work arounds?

Thanks,
Bill

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Janina Sajka <janina rednote net> wrote:

Steve, I agree with you, as I just said in a response to Attila. If
there's any comfort in this situation, I take comfort from the fact that
it's not just persons with disabilities they've been willing to offend.
Among others, Linus Torvalds has called Gnome 3 unusable and has
switched to XFCE:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/117091380454742934025/posts/N5yRWsdXwGw

The Compiz people are also pretty upset:

http://www.stefanoforenza.com/compiz-is-getting-rapidly-sick-of-gnome/

So, it seems our misery has good company, if not yet viable alternative
options.

Janina

Steve Holmes writes:

It seems to me like the GNOME developers forged ahead in big ways with
GNOME 3 and dappeared to disregard impacts on accessibility.  Ever
since gnome 3 came out, there have been numerous issues with this and
that being broken.  From my vantage point, it seems like Orca has
slipped backward in a big way because of these fundamental changes.
This doesn't mean anything negative to our Orca developers but gnome
over all seems to move in multiple directions and not care about the
impacts.  It's like too many changes at once.

I'm open to hear corrective comments in case I'm wrong but this is my
perception and from what I'm seeing with GNOME 3.2, little progress is
showing up in my environment.


On 10/13/11, Piñeiro <apinheiro igalia com> wrote:

On 10/13/2011 08:08 AM, Hammer Attila wrote:

Hy,


Hi, GNOME-Shell 3.2 support with Orca is limited, but about your
specific concerns.



I tryed GNOME Shell 3.2, but I perhaps I using wrong with new GNOME
Shell with Orca.
If I press for example Alt+F1 key, I only hear "Owerview" text if I
remember right, and not see any menu items, for example I impossible
to access awailable applications.


When you go to the Overview, you don't get initially a list of
applications, as the initial view is Windows. You could do the next:
  * Start to write: a filtered list is started to be created. You can
use up and down arrows to navigate
  * Ctrl+Alt+Tab: in order to move to a different panel, ane select
applications. This open "all applications", and you can navigate as before.


If I try mowing panels to use for example activities part and
navigating panel components with TAB or SHIFT+TAB key, I only hear
"Panel" text with lot of objects.


Panel requires more work:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=634016

Specifically related with roles:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648598


I doing anything wrong? Sorry the possible beginner questions, but I
not known GNOME shell usage tips and tricks for a11y related, but very
interesting the new interface.


GNOME Shell ATK (so Orca) support is still in progress.


I looked GNOME Shell 3.2 version with my Ubuntu Oneiric system,
perhaps other distributions this type issues is not happening? Anybody
using GNOME Shell with Orca 3.2?


The user experience with be similar in other distro.

Thanks for testing.

BR

--
Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias

_______________________________________________
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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


--

Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
               sip:janina asterisk rednote net

Chair, Open Accessibility       janina a11y org
Linux Foundation                http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative    http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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