Re: We want task bar back. Pretty please.

[jordan <triplesquarednine gmail com>]

Hi Ryan,

> I hoped that it stopped a long time ago; this thread it just going in
> circles, as I said. Person A comes in and complains GNOME is unusable,
> Person B that may or may not represent GNOME (as I don't, to be honest)
> comes in and says suggestions and clarifies the design, and then Person A
> says, in general, "no, the desktop should be like X", and then Person B
> (and/or C, another person trying to help) asks why and says that the current
> setup should work fine, and it keeps going on and on like that.

yup, pretty much. I wasn't going in circles, just pointing out some
observations. I didn't bother being like "Gnome-Shell should have this
feature or that one" - mostly i was stating that in a few ways,
gnome-shell is designed for a particular user in mind (so far), and
maybe isn't the best "desktop environment" for many users who clearly
fallout of this scope. I wasn't really making suggestions so much, or
trying to start a fight - but to get to my point, i first needed to
make some examples.

In doing so, I was also trying to point out to Tim, that he can run G3
without gnome-shell. it's totally doable. for those who feel the shell
isn't ready, or for whom it's just not the right environment...

I was also trying to show there are many ways to efficiently use a
gnome desktop. Hopefully, GS will incorporate being just as
customizable with any interface - not just keyboards...

> Anyways, to clarify "the user's fault" thing (I did not mean to sound rude):
> lets say you had someone who asked a major car manufacturer why their cars
> didn't have pedals like a bike. They say, "This is a completely different
> design; it was designed so you do not need pedals to move forward". The user
> of the vehicle doesn't try to get used to the whole accelerator/brake combo
> found in cars today, and complains about how their vehicles are "unusable"
> and "restricting" by only allowing this setup. Likewise, I find that the
> window list is completely unnecessary; if you still use the mouse a lot, you
> can just flick your mouse to the corner and click the window you wish.

lol.... you're going in circles... and AFAIK stylus' are extremely
hard to use in corners!

I had given very clear examples, as to why using the keyboard for
every task/shortcut isn't good for certain types of
users/applications.  using a hotkeys is old news - not some "new
design/model/feature" that takes adjustment. Your example again, is
not good -  you're using the repetitive "doesn't try to get used
it/give it a chance routine". and that is certainly going around in
circles..... AFAIK lots of people have given gnome-shell plenty of
time. - so, saying the user doesn't try to get used to it, is just as
rude and insulting, as saying it's the user's fault.

I do agree with you though, that a window list is sort of unnecessary
in gnome-shell. but then again, i don't use a panel and use a single
dock on my desktop, so it's a moot point for me, really :)

> That said, as Jason mentioned, I do not represent GNOME. I just really want
> this thread to die because we get these same threads so often that go around
> in circles about the same issues that were discussed at length a long time
> ago (and many times recently as well).

I think part of the problem here Ryan, is that it almost really
doesn't matter that some of these issues were discussed and resolved a
long time ago ~ the reason being - right now gnome 3 is being tested
by the majority, not a year ago, or even six months ago. If gnome 3 is
to be successful - it is important to consider the masses, not just
the "100's that worked on Gnome-Shell. Because naturally, a few
hundred people or even 1000 - are not going to notice what a million
users would, albeit if much of it is noise ~ you can also bet lots is
quite valid - and like i said before - there have been many valid
concerns, ignored and treated as noise... i would argue that some of
the reason these conversations/issues keep coming up - is because they
are valid (not all, or even the vast majority - but many are valid).

anyways, Ryan - i am not trying to start some war, you have a great day! :)

jordan