Re: Still need a hint for undecorated windows

[Bradley T Hughes <bhughes trolltech com>]

Sasha Vasko wrote:
> Desire by applications to implement window management functionality 
> themself, is no innovation, but arrogance.

Not providing the possibility to opt-out of having decorations is
arrogance on your part.

> Window managers are there to  provide consistent interface  to the 
> user. I personally get irked when I > see all the windows look 
> similarly, except for strange hard-to-read darkish stripe that is 
> representing XMMS.

You are describing an ideal world, where
everyone's needs are met and everyone cooperates perfectly. The fact of 
the matter is simple: application developers *want* to be able to turn 
off decorations, they are begging for it. There is no way for the window 
manager to be able to provide a consistent interface for all 
applications. And since both the ICCCM and EWMH explicitly omit any 
specification of semantics/behavior/etc., then we must allow 
applications to say "don't do anything special with me, don't draw any 
decorations, i'll implement the semantics i need myself". I know you are 
going to reply and say that the app shouldn't do this, but you are 
simply avoiding the issue. I'd like to hear a reason for limiting what 
apps can do (other than a description of an ideal).

> Real world example of this would be a car having a joystick instead
> of a steering weel, and a wierd knob on a dashboard instead of a gas
> pedal. Let gas pedals be gas pedals and window managers manage
> windows, and we all will end up in a better world.

I don't see how this applies. Your analogy describes the contents, not
the packaging around it. The window manager provides the packaging, and
you would force the same packaging on all applications and tell them *at
the same time* that they can't rely on the packaging their given. 
Somethings just won't fit in the packaging you give them; they will need 
to provide their own.

--
Bradley T. Hughes - bhughes at trolltech.com
Trolltech AS - Waldemar Thranes gt. 98 N-0175 Oslo, Norway