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Re: [orca-list] [Testers wanted before the official release] Slint64-4.2.1 release candidate is accessible.

Hello,

some progress,
I just needed to make the lightdm user member of the audio group...
Now it speaks.

However the graphical environment that it starts don't.

I think that I know why: when starting the session lightdm says:
"screen reader off" and kills orca, but don't kill at-spi2.
As it still owns it this prevents a regular user to start orca.
I realized that trying to start orca in lxterminal, see below:
cut here
didier[~]$ orca

** (orca:1671): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible 
causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the 
reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.

** (orca:1671): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible 
causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the 
reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.

** (orca:1671): ERROR **: AT-SPI: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus. Is at-spi-bus-launcher running?
Trappe pour point d'arrêt et de trace
didier[~]$ ps -ef|grep at-spi
lightdm   1259     1  0 23:13 ?        00:00:00 /usr/libexec/at-spi-bus-launcher
lightdm   1277  1259  0 23:13 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon 
--config-file=/usr/share/defaults/at-spi2/accessibility.conf --nofork --print-address 3
lightdm   1279     1  0 23:13 ?        00:00:00 /usr/libexec/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
didier    1676  1661  0 23:16 pts/1    00:00:00 grep at-spi
didier[~]$
cut here

How can I solve this?

I think that I have a similar issue with gdm: even if it doesn't speak
(although it be also member of the audio group) it does start at-aspi2,
preventing orca to start for a regular user.

Oh, and the --disable-at-spi-command flag when configuring
lightdm-gtk-greeter just remove the reader accessibility feature.

Greetings,

Didier

Le 27/10/2017 à 19:56, Peter Vágner a écrit :

Hello,

I am still not sure what might be wrong but looking at lightdm-gtk-greeter
configure script I can see it has --enable-at-spi-command and
--disable-at-spi-command flags. I would say we should keep orca spawning it
via python-at-spi. Haven't you build light-dm-gtk-greeter with that?
Another thing which I don't understand really but I am just thinking
loudly. When using xinit you are launching console kit. Should that be also
used when lightdm greeter session starts?

Greetings

Peter

2017-10-27 18:13 GMT+02:00 Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>:


Hello,
Well, I assume that Ali Ahmadi to whom I borrowed the scripts
don't need a screen reader, and I built the packages in a
hurry not paying attention to that so the different paths is not
what worries me the most.

But as I can't get gdm to speak either and also with an issue about
the accessibility bus I'd look there first. As I am not acquainted
with that, could you provide instructions on how to investigate and
where to look?

And oh yes, all packages built on the same system, but gdm. Of
course I can rebuilt it on the same system if need be.

Greetings,

Didier

Le 27/10/2017 à 17:08, Peter Vágner a écrit :

Hello,
Well have all the packages been built on the same slint system?
What appears strange is that when running lightdm path to the
at-spi2-registryd is different. Perhaps the buss address is also wrong.
Unfortunately I don't fully understand this so we need to experiment a

lot

if no one has a better hint.

Greetings

Peter

Dňa 27. 10. 2017 4:51 PM používateľ "Didier Spaier" <didier slint fr>
napísal:


Hello,

Le 26/10/2017 à 21:56, Peter Vágner a écrit :> Hello,


Yes lightdm is awesome. You can build gtk greeter against gtk+2 and it
should work fine.
However if you are going to package lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.x or any
revision after r312 but earlier than light-dmlight-dm-gtk-greeter
2.0.3re comes my fail-gtk-greeter 2.0.3 then please do look at thi
bug report possibly applying a patch...
https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1483864


I have installed the greeter 2.O.3 so I didn't need the patch.

Nevertheless, I am sorry to say that here come my failure report.

I have built and installed lightdm, the gtk greeter and its setting gui.
Dependencies also built installed as not shipped in Slint:
pam, dep of lightdm
python3-distutils-extra, dep of lightdm-gtk-greeter,

All packages are in the directories below, with their names ending in
slint.txz and can be installed with installpkg or spkg.

http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/pam/
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/lightdm/
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/

lightdm-gtk-greeter/

http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/python
3-distutils-extra/
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-testing/source/lightd
m-gtk-greeter-settings/

I have cloned the repo below not to reinvent the wheel and made a few
modifications:
https://github.com/idnux/idnux_slackbuilds
I was leaded there by this blog post frm an Indonesian Slackware user:
https://catatanidnux.wordpress.com/2017/05/26/memasang-
lightdm-di-slackware-linux/

I start lightdm, the greeer configures using the GUI, set accessibility
from reader with orca and lightdm works but... No sound!
In the greeters' log I saw /usr/lib/at-spi2-core/at-spi-bus-launcher

not

found, so I copied it there from /usr/libexec/at-spi-bus-launcher, then
restarted lightdm. It still complained about upstart missing but I guess
that's not our problem.

Rather, there seems to be an issue with starting at-spi2, as I also
noticed that from the graphical environment I couldn't start orca
either, with an error message about at-spi-2 not started.

Then instead I installed gdm-2.20.11 with slapt-get coming from a Salix
repo. I think that Salix maintainer built this old version as any newer
would need too many gnome deps and gnome is shipped neither in Salix nor
in Slint. This one needs only libgnomecanvas-2.30.3, also installed by
slapt-get as a dep.

gdm works as well as lightdm but... Still no sound.

And no sound in a graphical environment started with gdm either. I get
error messages very similar as when using lightdm when I try to start
orca manually in the graphical environment, so that can't be an issue
with pam (that I had removed before installing gdm):
cut here
didier[~]$ orca

** (orca:1623): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus:

Did

not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did
not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the
reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.

** (orca:1623): WARNING **: Couldn't register with accessibility bus:

Did

not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did
not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the
reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.

** (orca:1623): ERROR **: AT-SPI: Couldn't connect to accessibility bus.
Is at-spi-bus-launcher running?
Trappe pour point d'arrêt et de trace
didier[~]$ /usr/libexec/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session

** (at-spi2-registryd:1627): WARNING **: Couldn't register with
accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the
remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy
blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection

was

broken.
didier[~]$
cut here

I assume that if I can get lightdm to speak I can also get gdm to speak;
and on second thought I would prefer that as a last minute addition of
pam to slint could be risky.

If someone wants to try either gdm or ligtdm, in addition to installing
the packages it is necessary to edit the top /etc/rc.d/rc.4 to include
a code snippet starting it, as is done with its siblings.

But I have no idea how a blind person can test a non accessible display
manager...

Of course any clue, including how to investigate further, is warmly
welcome, knowing that the a11y environment parameters are now set in
/etc/profile.d/orca.sh instead as in ~/.profile, so there are set in
root's environment when starting gdm or lightdm as well as in regular
users' environments.

Greetings,

Didier


2017-10-26 21:41 GMT+02:00 Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>:


Hello,

Le 26/10/2017 à 19:14, Peter Vágner a écrit :

Yes arch linux also includes all the accessibility stuff in the
/etc/profile.d. I was thinking about it but I have never suggested it
as I was not sure it's appropriate for slint too.


It's up to us all to decide what's appropriate for Slint ;)

If that doesn't hurt we could set these parameters in
/etc/profile.d/orca.sh
as this won't hurt users who don't want speech as long as orca is
not started, right?


Also I like an approach where you will use
~/.config/autostart/startorca.desktop as a check instead of
~/.config/startorca.


Actually we won't have to check anything, if orca is started by
~/.config/startorca.desktop and the parameters are already set in
/etc/profile.d/orca.sh


However I am not sure on the
Hidden=true
desktop entry line. I think this won't disable the app from starting.

It

will only hide it from the menus won't it?


This is the main effect, but it also prevents autostart
as stated by the Desktop Application Autostart Specification:
cut here

When the .desktop file has the Hidden key set to true, the .desktop
file MUST be ignored. When multiple .desktop files with the same name
exists in multiple directories then only the Hidden key in the most
important .desktop file must be considered: If it is set to true all
.desktop files with the same name in the other directories MUST be
ignored as well.

cut here

If we end up putting startorca.desktop only in ~/.config/autostart/
not in /etc/xdg/autostart, this will still be useful, e.g; if the user
wanats to disable speech for som reason but alos easily get it back.


Also I think xdg stuff should be configured the same way no mather if
accessibility is requested or not.


Yes if that has no adverse effect for users who do not want speech
which I assume. i will make some tests to be sure.

Also, as if I understand well lightdm is accessible with orca, lighter
and with less dependencies than recent versions of gdm, I will try it
with a gtk greeter.

Of course I'll let you know the outcome.

Greetings,

Didier


2017-10-26 18:41 GMT+02:00 Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>:


Hello Jude,

Le 26/10/2017 à 17:55, Jude DaShiell a écrit :

I like your second possible solution.  Sighted users on the
debian-users list complained loudly when a single beep was included

to

let everyone know when it was time to enter boot parameters in a
debian boot so that got removed.  This will accommodate them and

us.


Yes. And maybe even better....

Do put startorca.desktop in ~/.config/autostart but also put the

a11y

parameters settings in ~/.profile like this:
cut here
export PAGER=/usr/bin/most
export GROFF_ENCODING=UTF-8
export XDG_CACHE_HOME=/dev/shm/$(whoami)
mkdir -p /dev/shm/$(whoami)
chmod 700 /dev/shm/$(whoami)
export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=$XDG_CACHE_HOME
export LOGNAME="GDM"
export SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN="gtk"
export GTK_MODULES="gail:atk-bridge" # for GTK2
export GNOME_ACCESSIBILITY=1
export QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 # for QT4
export QT_LINUX_ACCESSIBILITY_ALWAYS_ON=1 # for QT5
cut here

This way we wouldn't have to modify any xinitrc.*, so an user

adding a

third party graphical environment would get speech and or braille
without having to do a post install configuration.

I have made a few tests, that seems to work.

Other benefit, this makes graphical environments also accessible in

run

level 4, i.e. using a display manager.

This is an incentive for me to get gdm to be accessible in Slint.

If I

can succeed, maybe we could pretend that Slint is as much
accessible as a Linux distribution can be...

Greetings,

Didier
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