Re: [orca-list] Do we need "accessible" linux distributions anymore? was Re: Go to upper left and lower right corner in orca.

[Bill Dengler <billkd314159 gmail com>]

What known accessibility issues do you find in unity 3d? I had no 
problems using it in 12.10 and 13.04, but I did have some minor issues 
in 12.04, 11.10, and 11.04.
The only issue I see with Ubuntu right now, which I ran into when I 
received my system76 linux laptop, was that the installed version of 
Ubuntu was in OEM mode and there was no way to activate a11y. I should 
probably report that as an ubuntu bug, or do you know of a way? ctrl+s 
didn't work.
On 01/24/2013 06:39 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
> That's a good point, but upgrading/updating a system can introduce
> problems no matter the distribution. 12.10 uses Unity 3D, which has some
> known accessibility issues, and unless you're downloading and compiling
> the source yourself, you're always running some back level code.
>
> On 24/01/13 17:33, Bill Dengler wrote:
>> FYI
>> I started out with my Linux experimentation back with Ubuntu 8.10. Then,
>> after that, used it for years on an Asterisk PBX server. I finally
>> decided to switch to it full time during the Ubuntu 12.04 testing cycle.
>> I used it up until 13.04 where I switched to Debian. I have used the
>> horribly out of date distro's 11.04/10.04 releases, which sort of
>> worked, but also wouldn't properly upgrade and blew up. Now, would a new
>> linux user enjoy :
>> 1 - seeing an update-manager notice
>> 2 - installing the update
>> 3 - rebooting
>> 4 - kernel panic
>> 5 - reinstall
>> 6 - restart at step 1
>> I sure wouldn't have.
>> On 01/24/2013 05:52 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
>>> Libreoffice isn't as accessible as you make out in Ubuntu 12.10.
>> Neither is
>>> Unity 3d.  I'll grant you Debian is accessible at start up but, you
>> put that
>>> in front of a lot of Linux newbies and you're in for frustration.
>> Debian is
>>> not a distribution which I think people new to Linux should tackle as
>> their
>>> first one.  Ubuntu, sure but not Debian.  Now, Ubuntu 12.04 is very 
nice
>>> with fantastic accessibility support out of the box and very
>>> newbie-friendly.  I still think Vinux 4 has a lot to offer though.  If
>> you
>>> haven't tried Vinux which, your comments lead me to believe you
>> haven't, you
>>> really can't speak on what it offers with anything but speculation.
>> I, on
>>> the other hand started using vinux in 2010 and have kept an eye on it
>> even
>>> after I switched first to Ubuntu proper in 11.10 and then to Debian in
>> early
>>> 2012.  It's still a great distribution for blind people who are just
>>> starting out with Linux or want to benefit from all the a11y heavy
>> lifting
>>> being done for them and who want to just hit the ground running.  Not
>>> everyone revels in a lot of the tinkering and tweaking you have to 
do in
>>> Linux sometimes.  Some folks just want to get to work if you catch my
>>> meaning.
>>>
>>> Alex M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: orca-list-bounces gnome org 
[mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
>>> Behalf Of Bill Dengler
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 4:32 PM
>>> To: Christopher Chaltain
>>> Cc: orca-list gnome org
>>> Subject: [orca-list] Do we need "accessible" linux distributions 
anymore?
>>> was Re: Go to upper left and lower right corner in orca.
>>>
>>> Ubuntu/Debian out-of-box a11y has improved SIGNIFICANTLY over the past
>> few
>>> months. You don't need "accessible" apps anymore, the included ones 
work
>>> beautifully in ubuntu and minimal work is required for Debian(the only
>> thing
>>> I can't get working is a talking login).
>>> for ubuntu accessibility,
>>> 1 - download the Ubuntu 12.10 or 12.04 ISO and boot from it.
>>> 2 - listen for the system-ready sound
>>> 3 - press CTRL+S
>>> 4 - when you hear "welcome to orca", configure orca to your liking
>>> 5 - press alt+tab
>>> 6 - click the "install ubuntu" button
>>> 7 - complete the installer
>>> 8 - eject the DVD at the installation complete message
>>> 9 - boot into your new talking system
>>> for debian(gnome shell) :
>>> 1 - download the latest wheezy debian installer from the debian 
installer
>>> website
>>> 2 - insert the CD and boot from it
>>> 3 - press the following keys :
>>> s tab space priority = low enter
>>> so, press s, then tab, then space, then type "priority=low" without the
>>> quotes, then press enter.
>>> 4 - follow the prompts up to the set users and passwords step. For this
>>> step, you will want to create the second user account(for x). Then,
>> continue
>>> following the prompts up to the "select and install software"
>>> step, for this step, select :
>>> debian desktop environment
>>> SSH server
>>> standard system utilities
>>> other stuff if you want(I.E. web server)
>>> 5 - proceed with the rest of the install then eject the CD and reboot
>>> 6 - wait a few seconds(about 8 seconds on my SSD, about 30-45 for a 
hard
>>> drive) for the system to boot
>>> 7 - press the up arrow key until you hear the freedesktop bell sound,
>> then
>>> press enter.
>>> 8 - enter the password of the second user you created, then press 
enter.
>>> 9 - press the super key on your keyboard, type orca, then press enter.
>>> 10 - press the super key on your keyboard, type gnome-control-center,
>> then
>>> press enter.
>>> 11 - choose "universal access"
>>> 12 - toggle the screen reader switch button to the on state
>>>
>>> On 01/24/2013 03:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
>>>> I guess you're saying that Sonar and Vinux aren't needed, but that's >
>>> always been the case. Vinux takes the work out of getting an 
accessible >
>>> OS with a set of accessible applications. Of course, you could do the >
>>> work the Vinux developers have already done, and there's nothing 
wrong >
>>> with that, or you could take advantage of their work, and again,
>> there's >
>>> nothing wrong with that.
>>>>
>>>> On 24/01/13 14:05, Bill Dengler wrote:
>>>>> Not needed anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/24/2013 01:40 PM, Krishnakant Mane wrote:
>>>>>> Or perhaps Sonar.
>>>>>> Happy hacking.
>>>>>> Krishnakant.
>>>>>> On 01/24/2013 11:24 PM, Bill Dengler wrote:
>>>>>>> Ubuntu 10.04 is considered oldstable. If you want to stick to LTS,
>>>>>>> you can upgrade to 12.04 or you just upgrade to 12.10. I think 
Vinux
>>>>>>> is some kind of blind distro, which isn't required anymore.
>>>>>>> Therefore, I advise you to completely wipe your drive and start 
with
>>>>>>> a fresh, vanilla copy of either Ubuntu or debian.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Anders Holmberg >>>>
>>> <anders pipkrokodil se <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se>> wrote:
>>>>>>>     Hi!
>>>>>>>     Using orca 3.1.9 which i unerstand is pritty oldish.
>>>>>>>     Can i upgrade if i have vinux 3.0.2 running ubuntu 
10.04.And how
>>>>>>>     do i go about updating?
>>>>>>>     /A
>>>>>>>     23 jan 2013 kl. 21:40 skrev Bill Dengler 
<billkd314159 gmail com
>>>>>>> <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com>>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Are you using orca 3.7x(Ubuntu quantal), 3.5(arch probably has
>>>>>>>>     this), 3.4x(debian wheezy/sid), or something else? To find
>> out :
>>>>>>>>     1 - click the "about" button in the orca window, or run orca
>>>>>>>>     --version
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Bill
>>>>>>>>     On 01/23/2013 03:37 PM, Anders Holmberg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>     Hi!
>>>>>>>>>     I do think you missunderstand what i want. FIrst of all i
>> can't
>>>>>>>>>     find the settings you mentioned.
>>>>>>>>>     I am using a pritty oldish version of orca due to the fact
>> that
>>>>>>>>>     i have vinux 3.0.2.
>>>>>>>>>     which papenmeier has included in their displays.
>>>>>>>>>     Using the el bar and pressing it upp till i hear it 
clicks two
>>>>>>>>>     times.
>>>>>>>>>     /AWhat i want is to jump to the top of the screen using the
>>>>>>>>>     feature
>>>>>>>>>     23 jan 2013 kl. 13:59 skrev Bill Dengler
>>>>>>>>> <billkd314159 gmail com <mailto:billkd314159 gmail com>>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     In orca preferences, set the mouse to follow orca's
>>>>>>>>>>     focus(don't remember where it is), then move your mouse to
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>     appropriate section of the screen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:35 AM, Anders Holmberg
>>>>>>>>>> <anders pipkrokodil se <mailto:anders pipkrokodil se>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Hi!
>>>>>>>>>>         In brltty when in a console i can use my braillex el 
40 s
>>>>>>>>>>         navigation bar feature to go to the first and last lines
>>>>>>>>>>         of a window.
>>>>>>>>>>         It can be done by pressing the navigationbar so that it
>>>>>>>>>>         clicks twice.
>>>>>>>>>>         However this feature should be implemented into orca or
>>>>>>>>>>         can i define such things myself?
>>>>>>>>>>         /A
>>>>>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>         orca-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>         orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
>>>>>>>>>>         https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>>>>>>         Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information
>>> on Orca.
>>>>>>>>>>         The manual is at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>>>>>>>>>>         The FAQ is at
>>>>>>>>>>         http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
>>>>>>>>>>         Log bugs and feature requests at
>> http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>>>>>>> <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>         Find out how to help at
>>> http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>>>> orca-list gnome org
>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
>>>>>>> The manual is at
>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>>>>>>> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
>>>>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org >>>> 
Find
>>> out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>> orca-list gnome org
>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
>>>>> The manual is at
>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>>>>> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
>>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org >> 
Find out
>>> how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> orca-list mailing list
>>> orca-list gnome org
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
>>> The manual is at
>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>>> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
>> how to
>>> help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>>>