Re: [orca-list] Do we need "accessible" Gnu/Linux distros anymore? 13.04 edition! was Re: ubuntu 13.04

["John G. Heim" <jheim math wisc edu>]

Yes, of the points that Bill made, I think the one about Vinux causing  users to be less likely to solve 
problems on their own is by far the weakest. Those users are already the type to not solve problems on their 
own and all Vinux does is allow them to take a step into the world of linux, a step that couldn't normally be 
done unless you are are a problem solver. But that's not a bad thing since a few of those people may develop 
into problem solvers. The only problem is that it clutters up the email lists. 

But Bill made one point that is a little better. Projects like Vinux do draw resources away from mainstream 
projects. Obviously, that is a bad thing but it's not clear that overall it's a drawback. My opinion is that 
whenever possible, people should devote their energy to making the mainstream product accessible. But there 
are times when that just isn't going to be enough. Anybody remember when oralux first came out? Tjat distro 
saved my bacon many a time. These days, I generally rely on grml with speakup when the chips are down. But 
vinux may still have a role. Maybe it's education or just getting blind users started with linux. 

But to some degree I understand Bill's frustration. I'm on the grml developers list and have made some ver 
small contributions to that project. And it annoys me to see people go off and start their own accessible 
rescue disk project. Why don't you just help the grml people make their disk accessible? I don't think there 
is any question that overall, our efforts as blind people are hurt by so many people insisting on doing their 
own thing. Even with orca, I remember being a little annoyed that they weren't just trying to fix gnupernicus.

Thisis a problem throughout the open source community. There are still several competing dhcp clients. In a 
way, this is a good thing. For example, we are all better off for Johnathan Duddington (sp?( deciding to go 
his own way on writing a TTS engine. But often, people start their own project and go great gonzo for a few 
weeks/months. But then the enthusiasm cools and the project dies.


On Apr 28, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Albert Sten-Clanton wrote:

> It occurs to me that saying that handholding for new users will make them
> less able to learn Linux well is like saying a good teacher's a bad idea
> because the students will be less likely to care about and learn a subject.
> For those who care to learn a thing, usually the opposite is true.
>
> Al 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Kyle
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 3:42 PM
> To: Orca-list
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] Do we need "accessible" Gnu/Linux distros anymore?
> 13.04 edition! was Re: ubuntu 13.04
>
> According to Bill Dengler(arch Gnu/Linux):
> # OK, what about Ubuntu though?
>
> Ubuntu is indeed a great distro with lots of documentation. I still feel
> that there is as much of a place for Vinux from the standpoint of
> accessibility as there is for regular Ubuntu for both blind and seeing Linux
> desktop users. For all intents and purposes, Vinux is Ubuntu 12.04. It just
> includes a little extra handholding on the screen reader side, which is very
> important for some users. It's not dumbed down at all. Handholding can be
> very good as a getting started tool.
> ~Kyle
> http://kyle.tk/
> --
> "Kyle? ... She calls her cake, Kyle?"
> Out of This World, season 2 episode 21 - "The Amazing Evie"
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