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Re: [orca-list] Do we need "accessible" Gnu/Linux distros anymore? 13.04 edition! was Re: ubuntu 13.04

All I will say on this topic is the following:
People who are not technically inclined also require a distribution that meets their needs. All people do not 
have the time, energy, resources, patients, etc. to sit there and monkey with the distribution and take 
forever building it up. They also, just want to sit down and get to work. This, is why Microsoft and Apple's 
products Are so powerful. They take all of the technical difficulties out of the equation and let people just 
sit down and get to work.  Vinux did that for me back in 2010. I did not then care about learning about Linux 
per se. All I wanted was something that would allow me to access office word documents so that I could 
complete a class in college. That is exactly what I got. I put the CD in my drive, I fired up OpenOffice, I 
opened the documents that I could not be read with anything else, and successfully completed my class. All of 
the rest Such as getting to know the operating system more intimately and in greater detail came later.  
Eventually, I progressed beyond Vinux  and rarely use it these days. However, I am very glad it is there. 
Others will no doubt benefit from it as I did.

Alex M
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2013, at 6:39 PM, "John G. Heim" <jheim math wisc edu> wrote:


Yes, of the points that Bill made, I think the one about Vinux causing  users to be less likely to solve 
problems on their own is by far the weakest. Those users are already the type to not solve problems on 
their own and all Vinux does is allow them to take a step into the world of linux, a step that couldn't 
normally be done unless you are are a problem solver. But that's not a bad thing since a few of those 
people may develop into problem solvers. The only problem is that it clutters up the email lists. 

But Bill made one point that is a little better. Projects like Vinux do draw resources away from mainstream 
projects. Obviously, that is a bad thing but it's not clear that overall it's a drawback. My opinion is 
that whenever possible, people should devote their energy to making the mainstream product accessible. But 
there are times when that just isn't going to be enough. Anybody remember when oralux first came out? Tjat 
distro saved my bacon many a time. These days, I generally rely on grml with speakup when the chips are 
down. But vinux may still have a role. Maybe it's education or just getting blind users started with linux. 

But to some degree I understand Bill's frustration. I'm on the grml developers list and have made some ver 
small contributions to that project. And it annoys me to see people go off and start their own accessible 
rescue disk project. Why don't you just help the grml people make their disk accessible? I don't think 
there is any question that overall, our efforts as blind people are hurt by so many people insisting on 
doing their own thing. Even with orca, I remember being a little annoyed that they weren't just trying to 
fix gnupernicus.

Thisis a problem throughout the open source community. There are still several competing dhcp clients. In a 
way, this is a good thing. For example, we are all better off for Johnathan Duddington (sp?( deciding to go 
his own way on writing a TTS engine. But often, people start their own project and go great gonzo for a few 
weeks/months. But then the enthusiasm cools and the project dies.


On Apr 28, 2013, at 4:30 PM, Albert Sten-Clanton wrote:


It occurs to me that saying that handholding for new users will make them
less able to learn Linux well is like saying a good teacher's a bad idea
because the students will be less likely to care about and learn a subject.
For those who care to learn a thing, usually the opposite is true.

Al 

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Kyle
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 3:42 PM
To: Orca-list
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Do we need "accessible" Gnu/Linux distros anymore?
13.04 edition! was Re: ubuntu 13.04

According to Bill Dengler(arch Gnu/Linux):
# OK, what about Ubuntu though?

Ubuntu is indeed a great distro with lots of documentation. I still feel
that there is as much of a place for Vinux from the standpoint of
accessibility as there is for regular Ubuntu for both blind and seeing Linux
desktop users. For all intents and purposes, Vinux is Ubuntu 12.04. It just
includes a little extra handholding on the screen reader side, which is very
important for some users. It's not dumbed down at all. Handholding can be
very good as a getting started tool.
~Kyle
http://kyle.tk/
--
"Kyle? ... She calls her cake, Kyle?"
Out of This World, season 2 episode 21 - "The Amazing Evie"
_______________________________________________
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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to
help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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