I agree with you there. I took a class in which Python was the main
language taught, but the problem is that all I learned to do was to
create a program which takes in a birthday and gives a person a
personality characteristic about himself/herself according to some
formulas. Unfortunately, I have taken classes in C++ as well, but it
was basically the same--creating programs which use minimal skills,
and basically do something very, very simple like printing diamond
shapes made of asterisks on the screen.
I read these posts on the Orca list as well as the Ubuntu
Accessibility list, and I just feel awful because I hardly know a
thing. I have a little bit of vision which allows me to use the
eZoom plugin in Compiz, but I don't think that it is going to last,
and I definitely do not plan on switching back to Windows. I just
wish that there was some way that I could help, so long as I would
have the time to do so.
In any case, thanks for the links.
On 08/12/2011 11:54 AM, Alex H. wrote:
Hi,
It's sort of little of this little of that, the Python Tutorial
at python.org is a good read, but it does go into planet
Esoterica as you go and it takes quite a while to really get
what is going on. Also, http://www.sthurlow.com/python/
is a beginner's point of view on Python. It starts out stupidly
simple but at least it's harder to get lost that way.
I hit the wall when it comes to actually....using it. Sure it's
good to be able to write abstract tidbits of code to make math
easier on yourself, but what about doing something useful? This
is where the resources are lacking.
Alex
On 8/12/2011 2:45 PM, Robert Cole wrote:
I know that
this is slightly off-topic, and I apologize for it, but what
resources are you using to learn Python, Alex? I have a book
which I ordered online for beginning Python, but I was curious
as to what you are using? Thank you.
On 08/12/2011 11:09 AM, Alex H. wrote:
Hi,
On 8/12/2011 1:44 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
All
laudable goals, but let's not lose sight of the gains
we've also
made. I switched from Windows to Linux a few months ago,
thanks to the
vinux distribution. I tried doing this several times over
the last
decade, but I wasn't successful until just now. I think
this says a lot
about how far the state of Linux accessibility has come.
Agree. I'm not using Linux as my main OS, but it has
certainly become less annoying to use as of late. Before, I
was die-hard CLI. Now I can actually use the GNOME
environment without cringing at how laggy Orca is in Firefox
and huge lists of files. Obviously there's room for
improvement (e.g, Orca performance in Firefox can still use
a big boost and accuracy check, as well as general
responsiveness is not as good as the Windows counterparts
with NVDA). That being said, things are a bit better and
will hopefully improve steadily.
Universal
access across distributions and operating systems is a
laudable goal, but how realistic is it really? Is this a
situation where
we'd just be tilting at windmills? I mean if everyone
could agree then
we wouldn't have so many distributions and operating
systems in the
first place.
This is Linux's biggest fault. On one hand, you have 200+
distributions to pick from, and probably only 10-15 of those
are actually accessible without having major issues. And
that's probably a bit too positive. I don't just mean they
stuck Orca in and left it at that, I mean actually having a
snappy, well-put together OS that isn't going to need a
boatload of configuring for the nooby. For noobs and Linux,
Ubuntu and/or Vinux is really their only GUI option where
they can use various Windows apps natively under Linux and
gradually move into the Linux world. People will probably
say we should all use Arch, but not everybody can just pick
up a Linux book and start configuring their Arch system to
their heart's content. As far as consoles go, Speakup is the
solution, or Emacspeak, it's the GUI in all its flavors that
really puts us blind and other disabled people on the brink
of falling behind the pack.
Finally,
I don't consider these questions to be trivial. I have a
job
right now that requires I have access to Linux, I can
access wireless
networks, I can use IRC, I can read email and so on. I
need answers to
these questions now if I'm going to keep my job. I can't
wait for these
questions to be answered or these issues to be addressed
until after we
have universal access across distributions and operating
systems. I just
can't wait that long.
Yes indeed. Universal access? What does this actually even
mean? To me, it means not just the visually impaired user of
technology, but the deaf and physically handicapped. Speech
recognition under Linux is lacking or so I've heard, and
there's probably other areas where Linux doesn't even
scratch the surface of what needs to be done for other
disabled individuals to effectively use their machines.
Having universsal access will probably never happen. Nobody
really likes getting involved in the nitty-gritty, and all
the really awesome coders are finding big buck jobs and
using Windows, or at the most, Linux as a server for
websites etc.
People need to start coming to major conclusions if we want
something to get done on a more global/distrowide level.
I'm on some other a11y Linux lists for various distros, and
all they seem to do is bitch and moan about needing to make
plans, and then argue amongst themselves about how to target
accessibility in their distro, which leads to lots of quoted
messages and arguments about the argument that started the
initial argument about arguing about accessibility and
usability, which in turn brings in another longwinded string
of stuff hardly related to accessibility in the first place.
In short, instead of coding, they're all just trying to
figure out how to implement a11y and the result is almost no
progress, at least in my eyes. Why don't people just start
coding and experimenting rather than checking with the big
elitists if it's OK? The community will decide in the end if
their efforts are good or not.
Now, to back up my whinefest, I'm actually learning Python.
It's been slow going, as I have a real life, but I'm going
to eventually try helping instead of blowing hot air.
Oh, and yeah, a unified hotkey on any Linux distro to bring
up accessibility options would be welcome. Now we'd just
need to get the actual access there. Fluxbox, IseWM, and
other obscure windowmanagers, anyone? Oh, what about Puppy
Linux? Still not accessible. Why? It's too hard. Boo hoo!
Alex
On
12/08/11 10:30, Frost wrote:
Hello all,
Sure would be nice if some of these accessibility
functions
could be added to the LSB the way the filesystem is. We
have Alt+F2 and
type orca, Mickeysoft has Windows+U...dunno what Apple
has. Because it
sure as hell be nice to press a certain keystroke and
get the accessible
installation, plus it sure would save a hell of a lot of
posts on, "How
do I install Ubuntu, or GRML, or Arch, or Debian, etc.,
etc., etc.
Universal Access isn't very universal at all with no
standards from one
distribution to another, let alone from one operating
system to another.
When are we going to make universal Access
universal? When will
we be able to press a key, no matter which LSB compliant
distro and get
an accessible installation, or have a screen
reader/magnifier start up?
When are we going to stop monkeying around with the
trivial crap and
actually do something intelligent for ourselves? When
are we
handicapped going to become part of the Linux Standards
Base?
Michael
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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca
for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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