Re: [orca-list] Universal access [was "Re: Indicators [was "Re: Connecting to a wireless network"]"]

["Alex H." <linuxx64 bashsh gmail com>]

Hi,

On 8/12/2011 1:44 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
> All laudable goals, but let's not lose sight of the gains we've also
> made. I switched from Windows to Linux a few months ago, thanks to the
> vinux distribution. I tried doing this several times over the last
> decade, but I wasn't successful until just now. I think this says a lot
> about how far the state of Linux accessibility has come.
Agree. I'm not using Linux as my main OS, but it has certainly become 
less annoying to use as of late. Before, I was die-hard CLI. Now I can 
actually use the GNOME environment without cringing at how laggy Orca is 
in Firefox and huge lists of files. Obviously there's room for 
improvement (e.g, Orca performance in Firefox can still use a big boost 
and accuracy check, as well as general responsiveness is not as good as 
the Windows counterparts with NVDA). That being said, things are a bit 
better and will hopefully improve steadily.

> Universal access across distributions and operating systems is a
> laudable goal, but how realistic is it really? Is this a situation where
> we'd just be tilting at windmills? I mean if everyone could agree then
> we wouldn't have so many distributions and operating systems in the
> first place.
This is Linux's biggest fault. On one hand, you have 200+ distributions 
to pick from, and probably only 10-15 of those are actually accessible 
without having major issues. And that's probably a bit too positive. I 
don't just mean they stuck Orca in and left it at that, I mean actually 
having a snappy, well-put together OS that isn't going to need a 
boatload of configuring for the nooby. For noobs and Linux, Ubuntu 
and/or Vinux is really their only GUI option where they can use various 
Windows apps natively under Linux and gradually move into the Linux 
world. People will probably say we should all use Arch, but not 
everybody can just pick up a Linux book and start configuring their Arch 
system to their heart's content. As far as consoles go, Speakup is the 
solution, or Emacspeak, it's the GUI in all its flavors that really puts 
us blind and other disabled people on the brink of falling behind the pack.

> Finally, I don't consider these questions to be trivial. I have a job
> right now that requires I have access to Linux, I can access wireless
> networks, I can use IRC, I can read email and so on. I need answers to
> these questions now if I'm going to keep my job. I can't wait for these
> questions to be answered or these issues to be addressed until after we
> have universal access across distributions and operating systems. I just
> can't wait that long.
Yes indeed. Universal access? What does this actually even mean? To me, 
it means not just the visually impaired user of technology, but the deaf 
and physically handicapped. Speech recognition under Linux is lacking or 
so I've heard, and there's probably other areas where Linux doesn't even 
scratch the surface of what needs to be done for other disabled 
individuals to effectively use their machines. Having universsal access 
will probably never happen. Nobody really likes getting involved in the 
nitty-gritty, and all the really awesome coders are finding big buck 
jobs and using Windows, or at the most, Linux as a server for websites etc.

People need to start coming to major conclusions if we want something to 
get done on a more global/distrowide level.  I'm on some other a11y 
Linux lists for various distros, and all they seem to do is bitch and 
moan about needing to make plans, and then argue amongst themselves 
about how to target accessibility in their distro, which leads to lots 
of quoted messages and arguments about the argument that started the 
initial argument about arguing about accessibility and usability, which 
in turn brings in another longwinded string of stuff hardly related to 
accessibility in the first place. In short, instead of coding, they're 
all just trying to figure out how to implement a11y and the result is 
almost no progress, at least in my eyes. Why don't people just start 
coding and experimenting rather than checking with the big elitists if 
it's OK? The community will decide in the end if their efforts are good 
or not.

Now, to back up my whinefest, I'm actually learning Python. It's been 
slow going, as I have a real life, but I'm going to eventually try 
helping instead of blowing hot air.

Oh, and yeah, a unified hotkey on any Linux distro to bring up 
accessibility options would be welcome. Now we'd just need to get the 
actual access there. Fluxbox, IseWM, and other obscure windowmanagers, 
anyone? Oh, what about Puppy Linux? Still not accessible. Why? It's too 
hard. Boo hoo!

Alex
> On 12/08/11 10:30, Frost wrote:
> >         Hello all,
> >
> >         Sure would be nice if some of these accessibility functions
> > could be added to the LSB the way the filesystem is.  We have Alt+F2 and
> > type orca, Mickeysoft has Windows+U...dunno what Apple has.  Because it
> > sure as hell be nice to press a certain keystroke and get the accessible
> > installation, plus it sure would save a hell of a lot of posts on, "How
> > do I install Ubuntu, or GRML, or Arch, or Debian, etc., etc., etc.
> > Universal Access isn't very universal at all with no standards from one
> > distribution to another, let alone from one operating system to another.
> >
> >         When are we going to make universal Access universal?  When will
> > we be able to press a key, no matter which LSB compliant distro and get
> > an accessible installation, or have a screen reader/magnifier start up?
> > When are we going to stop monkeying around with the trivial crap and
> > actually do something intelligent for ourselves?  When are we
> > handicapped going to become part of the Linux Standards Base?
> >
> >                                 Michael
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> > The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
> > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


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