Re: viewing and editing the "run command" field of a launcher

[Peter Stein <nbi wideopenwest com>]

Christian Rose wrote:
> mån 2002-12-02 klockan 05.30 skrev Peter Stein:
>
> > > > You are correct. This is a bug that has been in existence for some time. 
> > > > I filed a bug with RedHat who in turn filed one with GNOME. The bug 
> > > > filed with GNOME is a duplicate of GNOME bug 83964. The fact that fairly 
> > > > intuitive steps led a GNOME novice to discover this soon after 
> > > > installing RH8 does not reflect well on GNOME. Of course sitting on this 
> > > > bug for over 6 months doesn't help matters either. That reflects poorly 
> > > > on both GNOME and RedHat which has been touting GNOME.
> > >
> > > Are you a paying customer? If yes, congratulations, you are helping
> > > improve the situation. But Red Hat still doesn't produce all the
> > > software included in RHL, so you can't expect it to be without bugs.
> >
> > No, I'm not a paying customer. Apparently just someone who enjoys 
> > wasting his time doing somebody else's QA work for free.
>
>
> Nothing is without cost in this world. If you decide not to pay for
> something, you shouldn't expect the same level of support as if you pay.

You just don't get it. Just because software is free doesn't mean it has
to be substandard. There are many good developers and organizations
turning out very high quality free software. They do so because they are
passionate about their work and realize that their reputation is on the
line. They are grateful to receive bug reports and criticisms because
they know that without them improving the quality of their product is a
much more difficult task.

> > Does the fact that I'm not a paying customer or code contributor 
> > invalidate my findings somehow?
>
>
> Not at all. Only your conclusions that it should be a shame that this
> hasn't been fixed by others for you already.

Those are your words. It didn't need to be fixed for *me*. I don't
expect anyone to fix a newly discovered bug by tomorrow. But in this
particular instance there's been a lack of decisive action on a bug
that's been on record for 6 months. As if that length of time isn't bad
enough, look at the comments entered by various people. Nobody seems to
be very motivated to see a positive outcome ASAP.

> > > If you aren't contributing with code or by any financial contributions,
> > > you may consider doing so before demanding particular bugs to be fixed.
> >
> > My demands regarding this issue are stated where exactly? 
>
> Your comments, basically saying that sitting on this bug for six months
> was a shame. Maybe I read more into your comments than what you intended
> to, but I reread it several times and couldn't come to another
> conclusion than you demanding this to be fixed and considering it a
> shame that it wasn't already. Your recent comment about you being held
> hostage having to do "QA work" for something that you got for free only
> confirms my suspicions.

Again, you're projecting and attributing words to me that I didn't use,
such as "demand", "shame", and "hostage". But I do agree that it is a
shame. Perhaps standards are different in your part of the world, but
the commercial projects I've worked on over the last 20 years would not
tolerate a bug backlog of over 6 months. And if project management for
these projects ever saw the commentary for such an easily discovered bug
there would be hell to pay.

> > > Reporting or asking about bugs is one thing, demanding them to be fixed
> > > without anything in return is another.
> >
> > Evidently your grasp of English is wanting as you seem to have 
> > difficulty identifying what constitutes a "demand". Again, where did I 
> > make a "demand"? So far I've asked a question and confirmed what another 
> > poster suggested along with explaining my interaction with RH & GNOME. 
>
> I'm not a native English speaker, but I certainly don't need insulting
> comments about my English knowledge.

Perhaps it will occur to you one day that misrepresenting what others
say has a tendency to annoy them. I'm not a native English speaker
neither. And if I wasn't proficient to the point of expressing myself
clearly I wouldn't try to chime in, especially on non-issues.

> You certainly did post a valid question and confirmed an existing bug,
> but you added lots of unnecessary negative comments and criticisms along
> the way. "I find it amazing that this has not been addressed earlier in
> GNOME", "The GNOME help is next to worthless", "The fact that fairly
> intuitive steps led a GNOME novice to discover this soon after
> installing RH8 does not reflect well on GNOME. Of course sitting on this
> bug for over 6 months doesn't help matters either. That reflects poorly
> on both GNOME and RedHat which has been touting GNOME". All that adds
> up, and I don't think many people interpreted it in other ways than lot
> of unneeded criticism, instead of just the relevant facts to solve this.

My comments are honest and to the point. I stand by them. And they do
add additional information about things that deserve a look by RH and/or
GNOME. Don't shoot the messenger.

> Keep in mind that even though there are companies involved in this, such
> as Red Hat, large amounts of work in the free software world and thus
> also in the final Red Hat Linux product is done by volunteers, people
> that don't work with this as their day job and spend a lot of their
> spare time developing this new stuff and improving it. They certainly
> don't need comments from other people telling them that their work is
> worthless and that it's amazing that they haven't spent more of their
> spare time fixing particular problems for a user that got their
> application for free.

Again, you're twisting what I've said. I have not told anyone that
"their work is worthless", these are your words. Read my statement in
which I use the word "worthless" again. Does it criticise or assign
blame to anyone? Now consider the context in which it was given. I was
trying to demonstrate that as a GNOME newbie I had taken reasonable
steps to resolve this problem on my own before seeking help. As it does
not address the issue at hand it's utility is dubious. Other newbies
will make the same discovery, so a reasonable person might ask what is
it good for?

> Remember that even though this particular bug may
> be very annoying to you, it may be entirely possible that not many other
> people are experiencing it or have noticed it, or that they prioritize
> it the same way you do.
>
> So please keep bug reports factual and avoid hard feelings and
> criticisms. They don't belong there.

If the criticisms are valid, on target, and yield information they most
certainly do belong there.

> > Your constructive contribution to this thread has been what?

> Hopefully in helping a new user be a bit more successful in his bug
> reporting by avoiding unnecessary criticisms.

I've had plenty of experience with submitting bug reports to
organizations genuinely interested in receiving them, thank you very
much. If my comments are apt to hurt your feelings feel free to add me
to a kill file. In these mailinglist threads I only have time for people
genuinely interested in solving problems, so I'll be adding you to my
kill file.