RE: Regarding OOXML and Microsoft patents

When I say 'open' I mean 'I can open it in vim, and have some idea of what's 
going on' I realize that I should have picked a different word given the 
context of our discussion ;)

I don't mean to imply that the new format is great, but implementing a horrid 
and obnoxious XML format is still preferable (at least in my humble opinion) 
to a purely binary one. But also, my opinion stems from work on Beagle[1], 
where we just want to extract text, and assign it importance. I understand a 
full 'word processer' implementation is radically different, and significantly 
more difficult.

I am not well versed in this argument, nor will I pretend to be, if my 
assumptions are mistaken, please feel free to correct me. I did not mean to 
imply in my opening paragraph that those were my only two thoughts on the 
subject, just that I have conflicted feelings about it.

Kevin Kubasik

p.s. Some of you may have noticed the mailer header, it's true. Work e-mail 
system =/ However, I does give me access to the whole office suite. So on the 
subject of Microsoft's new formats. I would be more than willing to provide 
screenshots of document renderings, sample documents, sample conversions, or 
anything else you can think of.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [mailto:rms 1407 org]
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 3:22 PM
To: Kevin Kubasik
Cc: rms gnu org; Miguel de Icaza; foundation-list gnome org
Subject: Re: Regarding OOXML and Microsoft patents


It is my non-lawyer point of view that the Microsoft OSP is absolutely
irrelevant and that in the soon to be EU law may actually be a complete
red herring, since it may soon be the case that you don't have to be the
owner of patents to make the authorites do the enforcement.

Also, why do you say the format is open? Can you tell me how Word95 does
auto-space? Please don't tell me about a ruler to measure on-screen
spacement like the Microsoft expert did in the portuguese Technical


On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 11:07:16AM -0400, Kevin Kubasik wrote:
> If I may, I have been following this thread quite close, as I don't know how 
> I personally feel about the OOXML standard yet. On one hand, the format is 
> open, and much easier to implement (to the point that most users will never 
> really notice compatibility issues) than the original binary document 
> format. On the other hand, the attempt seems a little half hearted, and as 
> an Open Software advocate, I can only trust Microsoft so much.
> That being said, I think both of you are starting to degrade your arguments 
> a bit, as you both just keep asking the other to provide proof of points, to 
> which the responses are even more terse and less useful. I love a good 
> debate, and think that the Gnome Foundation is a leader in the free software 
> community, and its position will/could/can influence people. It is in this 
> spirit that I ask not only that this debate continue, but it continue in a 
> productive and useful manor.
> I am not saying this debate has reached the 'empty' or 'troll' level, far 
> from it, but I have always had a hard time sifting through the mix of PR, 
> omitted truths, and sometimes outright lies of this debate (on a larger 
> scale) and this discussion has proved to be very revealing of the truth of 
> Cheers,
> Kevin Kubasik
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-list-bounces gnome org 
> [mailto:foundation-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of Richard Stallman
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:43 AM
> To: Miguel de Icaza
> Cc: foundation-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: Regarding OOXML and Microsoft patents
>     Instead of using an ad-hominem attack, you could point us why Larry
>     Rosen is wrong and you are right, his credentials seem pretty solid to
>     me:
> Larry Rosen persistently spreads misinformation about the GNU GPL and
> what it implies for linking with non-free software.  We cannot treat
> him as a reliable authority.  He has his own agenda.
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> foundation-list gnome org
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Hail Eris!
Today is Sweetmorn, the 55th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3173
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?

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