Re: [orca-list] Label versus name

[Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>]

I see I now need to get the value properly for the spin button. I'll do 
that next.

BTW, all widgets should be in the Tab order. Dunno if you fixed that or 
not already.

On 1/29/20 11:15 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> So, the reason the name was failing is because it was decided long ago 
> (by Sun Microsystems I think) to prefer the displayed text. Displayed 
> text then falls back on the name. It's one thousand different kinds of 
> stupid. Anyway, it's always been on my todo list to unbork that. It's 
> not necessarily unborked, but Orca is now preferring the name when it 
> generates the name. How crazy is that?! </snark></rant>
>
> Please pull Orca master and tell me what next I need to fix. Thanks!
>
> --joanie
>
>
> On 1/29/20 11:05 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > Thanks! Lemme see if I can fix some of these properly in Orca without 
> > the need for any script.
> >
> > --joanie
> >
> > On 1/29/20 9:21 AM, Marc Sabatella wrote:
> > > If you have a reasonably recent of MuseScore installed (say, 3.1 or 
> > > later), or can grab the AppImage from https://musescore.org/download 
> > > <https://musescore.org/download>, you can check by firing it up, 
> > > clicking the treble clef symbols at the start of the music, then 
> > > looking at the Inspector on the right side of the window.
> > >
> > > Of the spinboxes you will see there, you will hear that "Minimum 
> > > distance" reads nothing for for its name because we have neither an 
> > > accessible name nor is the label properly connected to the spin box - 
> > > my bad.  "Stacking order" will read the "Z" ("zed", for me) because 
> > > it's part of the label even though there is an accessible name 
> > > without the "Z" that I'd prefer it read instead, although it's no big 
> > > deal in this case.  The two "Offset" spinboxes read nothing for the 
> > > name because they have accessible names ("Horizontal offset" and 
> > > "Vertical offset") but their labels aren't connected - which tells me 
> > > the accessivble name isn't even being used as a fallback.  When I fix 
> > > the labels, Orca will read the labels "X" and "Y" rather than the 
> > > names "Horizontal offset" and "Vertical offset", which is really the 
> > > main reason I want to force reading of name rather than label.  Since 
> > > I am relying on a script anyhow, it's not a problem to do the 
> > > override if I could figure out how, although I would question whether 
> > > label *should* be the default.
> > >
> > > BTW, the score view itself - the view of the musical notation - is 
> > > the thing I've been discussing up until now.  The official versions 
> > > of MuseScore will just say "Untitled" (the name of the widget is the 
> > > name of the score) and "Invalid" (the role is currently set to an 
> > > invalid value).  No event is generated as you select things in the 
> > > score because Qt won't bother generating value change events for 
> > > widgets it doesn't think should have them.  So the main change in my 
> > > code is to make this a static text (which seems the role most 
> > > acceptable to most screen readers) and specifically implementing the 
> > > value interface so Qt will generate the value change.  And then my 
> > > script just listens for the event, because Orca doesn't by default.  
> > > As we've discussed, it's not necessarily ideal from a purist 
> > > standpoint, but there doesn't seem to be a better solution that 
> > > actually works.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:54 PM Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com 
> > > <mailto:jdiggs igalia com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     I am happy to look into it. Do you have something concrete (one 
> > > of your
> > >     spinboxes) I can try?
> > >
> > >     This is probably something we want to fix in *not* a custom 
> > > script. But
> > >     I'd really like to see the real-world widget before making a
> > >     determination or change in Orca.
> > >
> > >     Thanks!
> > >     --joanie
> > >
> > >     On 1/28/20 5:47 PM, Marc Sabatella wrote:
> > >      > Yes.  Also, if I override liocusOfFocusChanged, I can get it to
> > >     read the
> > >      > name explicitly, and then if I could ever figure out how to 
> > > get the
> > >      > value correctly I'd read that, but I don't really want to do that
> > >      > manually.  I want to get it read normally but force it to use the
> > >      > accessible name in preference to the label.  So I was hoping to
> > >     maybe
> > >      > just override some function that can tell spinboxes to prefer
> > >     accessible
> > >      > name.
> > >      >
> > >      > Marc
> > >      >
> > >      > On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 2:24 PM Joanmarie Diggs
> > >     <jdiggs igalia com <mailto:jdiggs igalia com>
> > >      > <mailto:jdiggs igalia com <mailto:jdiggs igalia com>>> wrote:
> > >      >
> > >      >     Does the accessible name show up in Accerciser?
> > >      >
> > >      >     --joanie
> > >      >
> > >      >     On 1/28/20 4:16 PM, Marc Sabatella wrote:
> > >      >      > I'm not clear on what the expected semantics are 
> > > between label
> > >      >     and name
> > >      >      > for an accessible control like a spinbox, but it appears
> > >     Orca is
> > >      >      > *supposed* to read the label if present, the name if 
> > > not.     But as
> > >      >     far as
> > >      >      > I can tell, for spinboxes at least, this isn't happening -
> > >     if the
> > >      >     label
> > >      >      > is missing, nothing is read even if there is a name.  Is
> > >     this a
> > >      >     bug, or
> > >      >      > am I misunderstanding something or doing something wrong?
> > >      >      >
> > >      >      > Also - really, I'd generally rather have the name read 
> > > - the
> > >      >     label might
> > >      >      > require additional visual context to make sense 
> > > (although I
> > >      >     recognize I
> > >      >      > can connect multiple labels).  It looks like maybe there
> > >     is some
> > >      >      > facility override some internal function to control which
> > >     takes
> > >      >      > precedence, but I can't quite work out how to make this
> > >     happen.
> > >      >      >
> > >      >      > --
> > >      >      > Marc Sabatella
> > >      >      > marc outsideshore com <mailto:marc outsideshore com>
> > >     <mailto:marc outsideshore com <mailto:marc outsideshore com>>
> > >      >     <mailto:marc outsideshore com <mailto:marc outsideshore com>
> > >     <mailto:marc outsideshore com <mailto:marc outsideshore com>>>
> > >      >      >
> > >      >      > _______________________________________________
> > >      >      > orca-list mailing list
> > >      >      > orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
> > >     <mailto:orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>>
> > >      >      > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >     <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
> > >      >     <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > >     <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>>
> > >      >      > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > >     <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
> > >      >     <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > >     <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>>
> > >      >      > Orca documentation:
> > >     https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > >     <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
> > >      >     <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > >     <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>>
> > >      >      > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > >      > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > >     <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
> > >      >     <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > >     <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>>
> > >      >      >
> > >      >
> > >      >
> > >      >
> > >      > --
> > >      > Marc Sabatella
> > >      > marc outsideshore com <mailto:marc outsideshore com>
> > >     <mailto:marc outsideshore com <mailto:marc outsideshore com>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Marc Sabatella
> > > marc outsideshore com <mailto:marc outsideshore com>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html