Re: [orca-list] [Testers wanted before the official release] Slint64-4.2.1 release candidate is accessible.

[Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>]

Hello,

Peter, you made my day!

Not only does it work, but now KDE apps start instantly.

@Jude: I think that I don't need to investigate further about the lag
when starting these apps, nevertheless thanks for your input.

I think you were right about dbus trying to start twice,
as I have seen warnings like "application may misbehave"
that could be a consequence of that.

That could also explain another oddity: typing "orca -r" in a terminal
didn't work (no output, terminal frozen), now it does. 

I intend to put the .desktop in /etc/xdg/autostart, as that will avoid
to put one more file in /etc/skel, which we would need to be taken care
of in ~ when upgrading, or a manual config by the user.

Now, I will dig the issue with sockets, not only to help speecd-el
cooperate with speech-dispatcher, but also to preferably put them in a
a temp dir in ram. That would avoid my ugly remval of stale dirs
containing sockets.

So, let's play with XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. Stay tuned.

Greetings,

Didier 



Le 22/10/2017 à 17:34, Peter Vágner a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> Some more experiments here.
>
> In our xinit config we are roughly doing something like this - see some
> added comments to explain my thoughts:
> if [ -f ~/.config/startorca ]; then
> # init some ENV variables
> /usr/bin/speech-dispatcher -d
> /usr/bin/orca # Orca will start at-spi if it's not running which will
> launch dbus if it's not running.
> fi
> if [ -z "$DESKTOP_SESSION" -a -x /usr/bin/ck-launch-session ]; then # Here
> console kit would also try to run dbus however dbus is already running so I
> guess we might end up missing some bus addresses or something
>     ck-launch-session dbus-launch --exit-with-session startlxde
> else
>     startlxde
> fi
>
> When orca starts up and there is no instance of at-spi and
> speech-dispatcher orca will try to spawn both of them.
> In gnome, at-spi is started via
> /etc/xdg/autostart/at-spi-dbus-bus.desktop
> By looking to the at-spi2-core build configuration I can verify this is a
> part of at-spi2-core.
> It's specific to gnome and it appears gnome is the only DE it has
> accessibility turned on by default.
> It reads...
> [Desktop Entry]
> Type=Application
> Name=AT-SPI D-Bus Bus
> Exec=/usr/lib/at-spi2-core/at-spi-bus-launcher --launch-immediately
> OnlyShowIn=GNOME;Unity;
> NoDisplay=true
> AutostartCondition=GSETTINGS org.gnome.desktop.interface
> toolkit-accessibility
> X-GNOME-AutoRestart=true
> X-GNOME-Autostart-Phase=Initialization
>
> When converted to our setup it might look like
> [Desktop Entry]
> Type=Application
> Name=AT-SPI D-Bus Bus
> Exec=/usr/libexec/at-spi-bus-launcher --launch-immediately
> NoDisplay=true
> AutostartCondition=[ -f ~/.config/startorca ]
>
>
> So based off of that I guess we need to seperate accessibility setup into
> two parts:
> * Configure all the variables and settings within the xinit configuration
> before launching the actual session.
> * Where possible configure session autostart features to start orca.
>
> Only we need to decide if we are going to start at-spi as a part of our
> session startup or we can keep orca handling its launch as soon as it
> starts.
> I originally assumed seperate at-spi startup might be usefull if we wish to
> have orca access to apps running as root because gnome is the only DE where
> I have this seen working consistently so far, however on this install of
> slint I can use su to gain root and then launch gparted for example and
> orca reads it all fine no mather how at-spi is started.
>
> Here is orca desktop file I have put into my
> ~/.config/autostart
> after I have commented out call to it and call to speech-dispatcher in the
> xinit config.
>
> [Desktop Entry]
> Type=Application
> Version=1.0
> Name=orca
> Exec=/usr/bin/orca
> AutostartCondition=[ -f ~/.config/startorca ]
>
> With session autostart handling orca startup I do also have desktop icons
> and they are accessible. Sometimes after closing all the windows focus is
> not automagically placed to the desktop so flat review or random mouse
> clicks are needed but still it's a good move I feel.
>
> Greetings
>
> Peter
>
>
> 2017-10-22 15:19 GMT+02:00 Didier Spaier <didier slint fr>:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just made some tests and am puzzled.
> > 1) If I have no ~/.config/startorca
> > - I have no sound in LXDE, of course
> > - I have desktop icons
> > - pcmanfm --desktop-pref works
> > 2) If i have a file ~/.config/startorca
> > - I have sound in LXDE
> > - I do not have desktop icons
> > - pcmanfm --desktop-pref pops up an error message:
> >   "Desktop manager is not active"
> >
> > I have been unable to understand why so far.
> >
> > On another topic, I made some more tests of qtatspi and noticed that
> > when it is installed it seems that LXDE be less responsive, and the
> > windows of KDE apps need 30 seconds or so to appear. I don't know why,
> > maybe looking at the output when starting them from a terminal could
> > give a clue, unfortunately these outputs are very verbose.
> >
> > Also, some apps are accessible, e.g. lokalize, others less so like kate
> > or kwrite.
> >
> > PS: Maybe we could let users know that XFCE is more accessible, and also
> > Maté (Jude and Peter, could you please check that?).
> >
> > I will manage to include startoca.snip in xinitrc.mate either by default
> > or as an automatic post-install task.
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Didier
> >
> >
> > Le 21/10/2017 à 23:08, Peter Vágner a écrit :
> > > > > Some lxde pannels are accessible with the flat review. However it
> > appears
> > > > > the desktop is not configured. Wouldn't it be more awesome if PCManFM
> > > > would
> > > > > be configured to provide the desktop? That way we would get
> > inaccessible
> > > > > pannels but very accessible gnome 2 style desktop that would receive
> > the
> > > > > focus when all apps are closed.
> > > >
> > > > I would be grateful for guidance on how to do that. I am a complete
> > > > beginner in the field of accessibility, with zero experience as I see.
> > > When pcmanfm is started with a --desktop switch it should provide the
> > > desktop icons.
> > > On an installed system I can see it's specified inside the file
> > > ~/.config/lxsession/LXDE/autostart
> > > but it is not running when lxde is showing, so it needs further
> > > investigation.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Now when starting orca after the X session launch it just says Screen
> > > > > reader on with nothing else. The only way on how to start working with
> > > > the
> > > > > system in this point is pressing alt+F1.
> > > >
> > > > Well, you can also press all+F2 to get a Run dialog, and also have a
> > > > terminal focused when going graphical. To get that just type as regular
> > > > user, for instance:
> > > > cp /usr/share/applications/lxterminal.desktop ~/.config/autostart
> > > >
> > > > Well I have tried to place modified pcmanfm.desktop into
> > > ~/.config/autostart and it has not been started for me. Perhaps these two
> > > things might contribute to each other. I will be looking again into this
> > > tomorrow. I just wanted you to know my progress.
> > >
> > > Greetings
> > >
> > > Peter