Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization

[kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>]

hi
I'm more than happy to help new users, including you. What I have little
patience for is mindless complaints. You were just the straw that set me
off. Linux sucks. It can't do this, it can't do that. I want what I want
and I don't want to have to lift a finger. That kind of attitude is
extremely common among windows using blind people when I bring up linux.
The most common response is something like "Until linux does everything
I want without me having to do anything, I won't use it" This is
extremely frustrating. Windows apps don't write themselves. Programs,
device drivers have to be written. I'm more than willing to help anyone
who asks. What I can't put up with much of is a constant "yeah but this
isn't how windows does it" response when I'm trying to help people. You
didn't do this, but I've gotten a couple of those and they drive me
insane extremely quickly. I want linux to get better and improve. I
happen to think it's already great. But I don't see how "apple is
better" or "windows is better" comments are going to improve anything.
They'll only anger users and make them unlikely to want to help. Then
you'll never get your ocr program, or your human sounding voice, or
whatever it is you want so much. Joanie does a fantastic job. She's one
person trying to maintain an entire screen reader. She doesn't have the
benefit of the massive devoted community of python programmers nvda has.
Sometimes I get the feeling the nvda community takes that for granted.
So when they come to linux and find out that there's things that have
been needing to be done for years but haven't, they assume that linux
sucks, see ya.
Thanks
Kendell clark

Thanks
Kendell clark


On 09/02/2015 04:04 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
> That may just be good enough, not too expensive either. But you'd have to have good documentation though, 
> maybe when it starts up you could have it load a file for beginners or something. But this wouldn't 
> strictly be for advanced people either though.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 2, 2015, at 3:00 PM, Josh K <joshknnd1982 gmail com> wrote:
> >
> > I am not a coder. never could really get the hang of it. well I can make little bash scripts that runs 
> > commands in sequence to do things. that's about it though for me. but if I ever went back to college I 
> > would get a laptop throw a solid state hard drive into it and make a ubuntu noteTaker out of it probably. 
> > hmmmmmm, I wonder if I could make a business out of that somehow? laptops with ubuntu linux or maybe sonar 
> > linux whatever worked on the machine throw in a ssd and a voxin license on top of a stable linux distro 
> > and sell ubuntu notetakers? It could be a business opportunity for me? if it works?
> >
> > follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982
> >
> > > On 9/2/2015 10:22 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
> > > The problem is that not everyone can be expected to know how to code. If Linux is only for coders, which 
> > > its not, considering all the little games out there for it, then I'm sure most sighted Linux users would 
> > > have put the OS down years ago. You can't expect everyone to be coders and be able to fix accessibility 
> > > problems.'
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Sep 2, 2015, at 6:55 AM, kk <krmane gmail com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Often we see that some part of the accessibility stack or the other gets broken  inadvertently
> > > > Imagine what would happen if for example some day for some time the accessibility of our settings panel 
> > > > in gnome is broken for some reason?
> > > > It will be fixed sooner or later but till then what will happen?
> > > > We will have no access to orca preference itself.
> > > > The case of accessibility is different.
> > > > We certainly need a way out and Orca accessibility in all aspects is crucial.  So we must have a 
> > > > dedicated hot key for accessing Orca prefs.
> > > > Happy hacking.
> > > > Krishnakant.
> > > > > > On Wednesday 02 September 2015 04:45 PM, Tony Baechler wrote:
> > > > > > On 9/1/2015 10:24 AM, B. Henry wrote:
> > > > > > Well, it's not unreasonalble to ask users to read a bit of documentation to learn a keystroke or two 
> > > > > > when trying a new desktop, but unless I'm missing
> > > > > > something folks like myself who use a window manager such as fluxbox and fill in accessibility gaps 
> > > > > > with custom scripts would be left out in the cold if
> > > > > > an orca prefs window was done away with.
> > > > > I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.  I think that in this case, it is unreasonable to expect people to 
> > > > > be required to read documentation in order to figure out how to set their Orca prefs. That attitude in 
> > > > > general is why so many people, both blind and sighted, either are put off by Linux, won't try it in the 
> > > > > first place or give up without ever installing it and giving it a fair chance.  I don't have a problem 
> > > > > expecting people to read a basic accessibility guide and I agree that once people have learned the 
> > > > > basics that they should be expected to read the docs, but expecting them to read the docs before they 
> > > > > even get started is asking too much.  Other than your first statement, I agree with what I think you're 
> > > > > trying to say.  I think you're agreeing with my previous post on the subject which is that regardless 
> > > > > of what desktop or window manager, there needs to be a universal keystroke to access the Orca prefs.  I 
> > > > > don't think people should have to read the docs to find it, h
 o
>  we
> > >  ver.
> > > > > What would be good is for Orca to open the prefs window automatically when it's started from a live 
> > > > > environment so people don't have to hunt around to find them.  Maybe could a command line switch like 
> > > > > --prefs be added for this?  I thought there was already such a switch, but I didn't see it when reading 
> > > > > "orca --help" on my Ubuntu MATE 15.04 system.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org