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Re: [orca-list] Progress update on the "List of" dialogs

Another possible approach would be a "dialog list menu". Where, for example, you press orca+l and use up and down arrows to select the element you want, and then press enter. Another idea would be orca+l which presents a list of all elements, then you can either use a search box in the dialog to narrow down the list, or press, for example, h for headings to change the contents to headings only. The list of "element types" could either be changed by the structural navigation keys, or by another listbox in the same dialog. 
Just a thought

Bill
On 02/07/13 15:11, Alex Midence wrote:

I am not sure what you mean by going mainstream.  My suggestion was only for
the list dialogs being implemented not for Orca as a whole.  However, that
being said, if one were to redesign Orca's interface such that these
keystrokes were implemented, I'd think it would be far less intrusive since
there would be absolutely no key conflicts as long as someone used the Orca
prefix.  A sighted person could sit at a talking machine and use it with
exactly the same hotkeys he or she is used to using (assuming they don't
just point and click) and find no interference from the screen reader's keys
whatsoever.  This, however, was not what I had in mind.

Thanks.
Alex M


-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando Botelho [mailto:fernando botelho f123 org]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:34 AM
To: Alex Midence
Cc: 'Joanmarie Diggs'; orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Progress update on the "List of" dialogs

I love the idea but hate the implications. Lets consider this for a major
redesign of keyboard shortcuts on Orca and Gnome and all, in the medium to
long term. To have something like this happening right now, and only in Orca
will cause a lot of confusion among beginners and we will kill any chance of
going mainstream.

However, it is a powerful concept. So if there is a way to keep things
normal for most users and have something like this on the side... But still,
it is a lot of complexity for just a few advanced users, which will be much
happier with Emacs anyway.

Just my initial thought.

Fernando



On 02/07/2013 01:23 PM, Alex Midence wrote:

Hi, all,

I sat down and thought about this last night and wondered if something
along the lines of an escape sequence might be possible to resolve

conflicts.

Emacs uses this a lot and it works pretty well there.  You press a
hotkey that makes the system wait for input which is the real hotkey
you want.  For
instance:

Orca-l is the escape key:

o-l 1 = list of level 1 headings
o-l 2 = list of level 2 headings.


You get the picture?  People wind up either loving this or hating this
so, I don't know how feasible this would be for a solution if keyboard
conflits are suspected in future.  It would open up virtually the
entire panorama of potential hotkey combinations as long as the user
pressed orca-l before they did the hotkey.


Regards,
Alex M

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of
Fernando Botelho
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:29 AM
To: Joanmarie Diggs
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Progress update on the "List of" dialogs

Dear Joanie and all, I hope I am not too late in terms of offering my
two cents.

I am all in favor of this solution, lets  use alt shift combinations
and unbind the few conflicts that exist.

Also, the new features are way too important to leave them unbound.

Control Alt combinations are already used by distributions like F123
and Vinux and I am sure many others. Plus they should be reserved for
the user to play with.

Thanks,

Fernando



On 02/05/2013 10:07 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

On 02/05/2013 06:44 AM, Hammer Attila wrote:


Basicaly, your concept with CTRL+ALT+Structural navigation letter is
full logical and easy to learning.

Thanks. Something that would be equally easy and less conflict-prone
would be Alt+Shift+Structural navigation letter. In fact, that was my
first choice, and it nearly worked too. Why I liked it:

* Orca is already using Alt+Shift+Arrows for table cell navigation
     which is a type of structural navigation.

* Alt+Shift+Letters does not conflict with any system bindings
     (like the gnome-shell lock binding of Ctrl+Alt+L)

* It doesn't conflict with any other Orca commands for the letters.

* The only place it conflicts is with the numbers. In particular,
     Alt + Shift + 1-6 are the commands for getting "Where am I
     information for this bookmark relative to the current pointer
     location".
     http://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/commands_bookmarks.html

As you will also see if you read those docs, the conflicting
keybindings are not for the primary bookmark functionality like
saving bookmarks or going to bookmarks. It's for (what I consider) a
set of fairly esoteric, not often needed commands.

So I'm going to ask a question and make a proposal:

Question: Who amongst you actually uses the commands specific to
getting "Where am I information for this bookmark relative to the
current pointer location".

Proposal:

a. Let's unbind those Where Am I bookmark commands.
b. Let's "steal" Alt+Shift+1-6 for the heading by level dialogs.
c. Let's use Alt+Shift+structural navigation letter for the rest.
      (including Alt+Shift+L for the list of lists) d. Let's use
Alt+Shift+K for the list of links

Thoughts?
--joanie

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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp



_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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