Re: [orca-list] Calling all braille users. I need your opinions.

[Halim Sahin <halim sahin t-online de>]

Hi,
On Mi, Mai 12, 2010 at 10:06:49 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Regarding point 1, I actually have the reverse view. I think that the 
> focus tracking in Braille isn't best because it isn't integrated enough 
> with the focus tracking.

Hmm I think this can't be done more perfect.
The thing is it makes a difference when an user uses speech or braille.
In speechonly setups, the only object based representation brings the
best experience.
Using a braille display can display more details of the screen which
should be available for blind people as well.
Braille display should give more details from the physical window layout
like in flat review.

> As an example, currently if I am reading 
> something on the Braille display and then I want to move to another 
> control, either I must move to the keyboard or use the clumbsy flat 
> review and do things very different to keyboard navigation and possibly 

> suffer a delay as orca enters flat review (eg. 

If you have a physical layout you can simply more line up /down and
klick the right object with the routing keys.

> thunderbird with a large 
> inbox suffers a significant delay here, but there are certainly other 
> cases). Flat review also has other issues which make it undesirable (eg. 
> flat review is a snapshot at a given time and so becomes invalid when 
> changes happen, in gnome-terminal this means Braille keeps getting 
> jumped back to the cursor whenever you try and move Braille in a 
> changing terminal). I thought flat review was really there just for the 
> case of a badly designed application, not as a main way of interacting 
> although that's what it seems to be for Braille (there is no way to use 
> the Braille display to tab/shift+tab/alt+tab/f10/shift+f10, etc, and 
> interact with the focus).

Yes the initial intention was to interact with bad designed apps but the
flatreview is the only way to use full potential of a brailledisplay.
I want to give you another example:

Place about 10 diferent shortcuts on your desktop.
E. G. 
Computer   Trash   gnometerminal
the focus should be on computer.
If you have flat review enabled, you can simply click on trash or
gnome-terminal without leaving the brailledisplay.
This would be diferent than using speech synthesis because speech can
only represent one object at a time.
You don't know that trash or gnometerminal are on the same line.

> My suggestion would be that Braille should work more with the system 
> focus, possibly have a way to switch to flat review (flat review is 
> there for a reason and that reason may come up for Braille).

Ok, read my notes :-).




> I think its the above which really makes me feel Braille in orca is 
> lacking and not great, I can't keep my hands on the Braille display 
> while navigating the system.

You could if the flat is the primary operating mode.

> On point three, this is another reason why flat review seems so clumbsy. 
> Adding more separators doesn't help those with small Braille displays, 
> the benefits gained may be lost by having to keep scrolling left and 
> right to find what you need. The one thing I could agree which may 
> benefit from some beginning/end indication would be links in firefox but 
> this is more than a flat review issue.
 
It's only an issue because flat review wasn't designed to use as a main
operating mode for braille.
Do you know the switch:
orca.settings.enableBrailleContext = False
in orca-customizations.py

> Point 4, configurable in what way? Time can be specified and on a script 
> by script basis (set time to 0 for no message). I think more work is 
> going to be done to perfect these (eg. what sort of stuff should be 
> shown, should it be identical to speech or could it differ and be 
> shorter, etc).

Ok that's enough for me if these messages can be switched off
completely.
BR.
Halim