Re: [orca-list] Calling all braille users. I need your opinions.

[Michael Whapples <mwhapples aim com>]

Regarding point 1, I actually have the reverse view. I think that the 
focus tracking in Braille isn't best because it isn't integrated enough 
with the focus tracking. As an example, currently if I am reading 
something on the Braille display and then I want to move to another 
control, either I must move to the keyboard or use the clumbsy flat 
review and do things very different to keyboard navigation and possibly 
suffer a delay as orca enters flat review (eg. thunderbird with a large 
inbox suffers a significant delay here, but there are certainly other 
cases). Flat review also has other issues which make it undesirable (eg. 
flat review is a snapshot at a given time and so becomes invalid when 
changes happen, in gnome-terminal this means Braille keeps getting 
jumped back to the cursor whenever you try and move Braille in a 
changing terminal). I thought flat review was really there just for the 
case of a badly designed application, not as a main way of interacting 
although that's what it seems to be for Braille (there is no way to use 
the Braille display to tab/shift+tab/alt+tab/f10/shift+f10, etc, and 
interact with the focus).

My suggestion would be that Braille should work more with the system 
focus, possibly have a way to switch to flat review (flat review is 
there for a reason and that reason may come up for Braille).

I think its the above which really makes me feel Braille in orca is 
lacking and not great, I can't keep my hands on the Braille display 
while navigating the system.

On point two, I might warm to these ideas but I feel more detail of 
suggestions of what exactly would be done is needed before I could say 
whether I agree with it.

On point three, this is another reason why flat review seems so clumbsy. 
Adding more separators doesn't help those with small Braille displays, 
the benefits gained may be lost by having to keep scrolling left and 
right to find what you need. The one thing I could agree which may 
benefit from some beginning/end indication would be links in firefox but 
this is more than a flat review issue.

Point 4, configurable in what way? Time can be specified and on a script 
by script basis (set time to 0 for no message). I think more work is 
going to be done to perfect these (eg. what sort of stuff should be 
shown, should it be identical to speech or could it differ and be 
shorter, etc).

Michael Whapples
On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, Halim Sahin wrote:
> Hi,
> On Di, Mai 11, 2010 at 12:59:36 +0200, Halim Sahin wrote:
>    
> > Hi Joanie,
> >
> > I think speech related changes shouldn't be displayed on the
> > brailledisplay!
> > It would be enough to announce these changes only in speech.
> >      
> Ok here are my thought's about orca's braille representation:
>
> 1. currently used focus tracking mode is in my opinion not well usable
> for brailledisplays.
> Braille display's should display more of the physical layout of the
> screen. This would make easy use of the routing keys in complex dialog
> windows.
> Example:
> If you have many symbols (icons) on your gnome desktop it places these
> in colmns?
> Currently orca shows in its default braille mode only one selected
> object like trash or computer.
>
> Switching to flat review shows e. g.
>   Computer   trash
>
> A braille user can easyly use the routing key to select trash or computer
> without leaving the brailledisplay.
>
> It would be nice to select flat review as the primary mode for braille
> displays for better braille experience.
> BTW.: This was diskused severals years ago but don't know why this
> wasn't implemented.
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400732
>
> 2. In fokus tracking mode the brailledisplay should use more symbols for
> some controls like sliders, spinbuttons etc.
> Orca does this allready for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>
> 3. Line up/down on the brailledisplay switches orca in flatreview.
> So it would be nice if we can add more object seperators between
>   * buttons
>   * Pagetabs
>
> Currently orca seperates these only by adding a single blank.
> The user must gues where a button starts and ends :-(.
>
> 4. Regarding flash mesages and notifications:
> Please make them configurable if not done.
>
> BR.
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