Re: [orca-list] Calling all braille users. I need your opinions.

[Michael Whapples <mwhapples aim com>]

I probably need to correct myself. I said that links need marking in 
Braille, I possibly was thinking of another screen reader and/or other 
clickable things on the web.

In the case of some of the other clickable things on the web, its 
possibly orca doesn't mark them because its hard for orca to detect 
them, so may be needing more work than just getting Braille to mark it up.

Michael Whapples
On 05/12/2010 10:06 PM, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Regarding point 1, I actually have the reverse view. I think that the 
> focus tracking in Braille isn't best because it isn't integrated 
> enough with the focus tracking. As an example, currently if I am 
> reading something on the Braille display and then I want to move to 
> another control, either I must move to the keyboard or use the clumbsy 
> flat review and do things very different to keyboard navigation and 
> possibly suffer a delay as orca enters flat review (eg. thunderbird 
> with a large inbox suffers a significant delay here, but there are 
> certainly other cases). Flat review also has other issues which make 
> it undesirable (eg. flat review is a snapshot at a given time and so 
> becomes invalid when changes happen, in gnome-terminal this means 
> Braille keeps getting jumped back to the cursor whenever you try and 
> move Braille in a changing terminal). I thought flat review was really 
> there just for the case of a badly designed application, not as a main 
> way of interacting although that's what it seems to be for Braille 
> (there is no way to use the Braille display to 
> tab/shift+tab/alt+tab/f10/shift+f10, etc, and interact with the focus).
>
> My suggestion would be that Braille should work more with the system 
> focus, possibly have a way to switch to flat review (flat review is 
> there for a reason and that reason may come up for Braille).
>
> I think its the above which really makes me feel Braille in orca is 
> lacking and not great, I can't keep my hands on the Braille display 
> while navigating the system.
>
> On point two, I might warm to these ideas but I feel more detail of 
> suggestions of what exactly would be done is needed before I could say 
> whether I agree with it.
>
> On point three, this is another reason why flat review seems so 
> clumbsy. Adding more separators doesn't help those with small Braille 
> displays, the benefits gained may be lost by having to keep scrolling 
> left and right to find what you need. The one thing I could agree 
> which may benefit from some beginning/end indication would be links in 
> firefox but this is more than a flat review issue.
>
> Point 4, configurable in what way? Time can be specified and on a 
> script by script basis (set time to 0 for no message). I think more 
> work is going to be done to perfect these (eg. what sort of stuff 
> should be shown, should it be identical to speech or could it differ 
> and be shorter, etc).
>
> Michael Whapples
> On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, Halim Sahin wrote:
> > Hi,
> > On Di, Mai 11, 2010 at 12:59:36 +0200, Halim Sahin wrote:
> > > Hi Joanie,
> > >
> > > I think speech related changes shouldn't be displayed on the
> > > brailledisplay!
> > > It would be enough to announce these changes only in speech.
> > Ok here are my thought's about orca's braille representation:
> >
> > 1. currently used focus tracking mode is in my opinion not well usable
> > for brailledisplays.
> > Braille display's should display more of the physical layout of the
> > screen. This would make easy use of the routing keys in complex dialog
> > windows.
> > Example:
> > If you have many symbols (icons) on your gnome desktop it places these
> > in colmns?
> > Currently orca shows in its default braille mode only one selected
> > object like trash or computer.
> >
> > Switching to flat review shows e. g.
> >   Computer   trash
> >
> > A braille user can easyly use the routing key to select trash or 
> > computer
> > without leaving the brailledisplay.
> >
> > It would be nice to select flat review as the primary mode for braille
> > displays for better braille experience.
> > BTW.: This was diskused severals years ago but don't know why this
> > wasn't implemented.
> > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400732
> >
> > 2. In fokus tracking mode the brailledisplay should use more symbols for
> > some controls like sliders, spinbuttons etc.
> > Orca does this allready for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
> >
> > 3. Line up/down on the brailledisplay switches orca in flatreview.
> > So it would be nice if we can add more object seperators between
> >   * buttons
> >   * Pagetabs
> >
> > Currently orca seperates these only by adding a single blank.
> > The user must gues where a button starts and ends :-(.
> >
> > 4. Regarding flash mesages and notifications:
> > Please make them configurable if not done.
> >
> > BR.