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Re: Orca Thoughts on whereAmI: Quantity of Information


Hi Joanie,
But on the other hand, i've seen instances where Orca reports something
being a "menu" but it turns out you can't go into it. Either the menu is
grayed, (Why isn't Orca reporting that?) or there's a buglet somewhere.
Anyone elce reacted on this?
And speaking of changes to the way Orca says things, what's best in your
opinion, "save as dot dot dot" or "save as has dialog"?
/Krister


Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Hi Cody, all.

Cody, I understand you for whatever it's worth. <smile>  And I know what
you mean:  That was my reaction when I first started using Orca.  But
after a while, I realized that I felt that way mostly because I'd grown
quite accustomed to hearing "submenu" over the years.  

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment.

The definition of a submenu is a menu within a menu, right? So let's say
you're in the File menu arrowing up and down to see what's there.  You
come across Wizards, which Orca tells you is a menu.  What are the odds
that Wizards is *not* a submenu?

Take care.
Joanie

On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 16:47 -0400, Cody Hurst wrote:

Hi
  Speaking of menus, I added this comment a while ago and don't know if
it was thought about but if your going through a menu and there is a sub
menu, orca should say something like "sub-menu" instead of "menu" the
person won't tell the difference in the main menu and any branching
menus and they could hit the right arrow and go to a totally different
menu and then recycle through the menus to find where they are. Ugh, its
a really confusing way I explained it but hopefully someone will
understand me <smile>

Cody
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 22:36 +0200, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

Hey there.
I agree with Sergey on how the keypad enter could be set up so that one
press of the key would give a brief info on where i am and two presses
would give a more technical description on where i am. However, i wonder
if the menu items speaking should be there. What i mean is that i would
like an option in the prefs dialog speech page where you could decide if
you want to hear menu item count and if so if you want to hear it every
time you move to a new item or only once for a menu.
That's my 2 cents.
/Krister
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 13:21 -0400, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

For those of you who don't hang out on Bugzilla like I do, there has
been some reason discussion and questions about whereAmI (i.e. what you
get when you press KeyPad Enter) and the implementation of a reverse
whereAmI (so that you can hear where you are without having to listen to
things like the name of the frame you are in).  I started commenting on
the relevant RFEs with my thoughts, but I'm merely one individual.  So I
decided instead to move things here in the hopes of having a broader
discussion on the subject.  

In the interest of brevity, I'll keep this message to the existing
whereAmI functionality, and to just one aspect of it:  the quantity of
information that is being spoken which, personally, I think is at times
a bit too much.

Example1:  I sit down to my computer and don't know where I left off.
Turns out I'm in OpenOffice.org writer in a document called Untitled1 on
a line which reads "this is a test."  When I press KeyPad Enter, I would
like Orca to reorient me by saying something like: 

"Untiled1 - OpenOffice.org Writer <brief pause> Text <brief pause> This
is a test."

What I get is:

"soffice.bin application Untitled1 - OpenOffice.org Writer frame
Untitled1 - OpenOffice.org Writer root pane paragraph This is a test. No
focus"

Do we really need and/or want to hear the application name and the full
hierarchy along with rolenames?  I, for one, would not.  I also think
all of this information might be rather confusing for the new user.

Example2:  Still sitting down, still don't know where I left off, still
in OOo Writer.  But this time it just so happens that I am in the File
menu, the Wizards submenu, and am currently on Euro Converter.

What I'd like to hear:

"Untitled1 - OpenOffice.org Writer <brief pause>  Euro Converter...
<brief pause> Item 7 of 9 <brief pause> E"

What I get is: 

"soffice.bin application Untitled1 - OpenOffice.org Writer frame
Untitled1 - OpenOffice.org Writer root pane menu bar File menu Wizards
menu Item 7 of 9 Euro Converter shortcut Alt fwe"

Let's ignore everything that is already addressed in Example 1 above.
That leaves "File menu Wizards menu Item 7 of 9 Euro Converter shortcut
Alt fwe"

I suppose I can see some value in knowing that Euro Converter is
contained within Wizards which is contained with File and that File
lives on the menu bar.  But if I'm disoriented, my number one concern is
to figure out what I'm currently sitting on.  How on earth I got there
to begin with is something I can worry about later. <smile> 

If I know the name of the window I'm in, that I'm on a menu item, and
what that item's name happens to be, that is often all I need.  With
that information, I'm in a position to choose an item in my current menu
or work my way back out to Wizards and then to File.  (And in doing so
answer the question of "How did I get here?") Thus the additional
information (full path to the current menu item along with all the
shortcuts I need) is unnecessary -- and, again for the new user, it may
be potentially confusing.

I'm curious as to what others think.

Thanks in advance!!
Joanie

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