Re: disabling keyring

Derek Frye wrote:

I think the "no need to login" idea this is outside the scope of NetworkManager; it's a *desktop* application, not a server application.

But that is silly.  I feel Eric needs more support here :-)
I have exactly the same feelings. System and user based configurations are entirely valid and meaningful concepts whether a machine is some kind of dedicated server (eg. fixed IP machine) or on a desktop client machine (dynamic IP - ie. relevant to NM).

It is also absolutely reasonable for a client machine to have a server process listening on an port. sshd is the perfect example! Perhaps some kind of nasty 'su'ing interface to have a list of /etc/init.d services which are started/restarted when the network comes alive, and optionally stopped/restarted when it disappears (some processes bind to localhost too)? That would certainly be the 'client oriented' solution. But they feel much more hacky than what Eric is suggesting. And while I agree that some clients like ntpd should become dbus aware it does not seem quite so reasonable to ask critical service daemons like sshd to do so :- I suppose it could reasonably be an enable at compile time option for sshd, but we don't all run Gentoo :-)

Perhaps the correct extension to this idea is to have a completely independent dbus aware process that is capable of starting/stopping/restarting various system services
in response to various messages from NM...?


-- Derek

Éric Brunet wrote:

On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 10:01:57AM -0400, Dan Williams wrote:

Dropping into detailed mode is merely an aesthetic consideration, but presumably whatever ntpd is failing to do (update the system time?) is a technical issue, and I imagine there are other services that could benefit from having a network connection available to them once the network service starts up (fairly early in the service startup sequence).

This is a hack.  These network services, like ntpd, need to deal with
differing and/or absent network connections.  That's no different than
now.  The only difference is that a network connection might not be
immediately available to the daemon.  So when one _is_ available, the
daemon should then try to contact the NTP server, but not before.

Sure, I agree. ntpd, kweatherd, etc. are stupid processes that need to be

But ntpd is a client, network-wise. I was thinking of a server process,
such as httpd or sshd. If I run such a process on a computer, I expect to
be able to power up the computer, leave it alone a couple of minutes
(boot time) and be able to access the server from the network. It is not
so with NetworkManager: I need to power up the computer, leave it alone a couple of minutes (boot time) and then log in to have the network working
and my server usefull. It doesn't matter whom I am logging as, just
someone needs to be logged in! It doesn't make any sense; why should
I need to log in as joe to have the system wide httpd working on that
computer ? And imagine that I just do that and leave the computer powered
up at home and go for a walk, knowing that some people are accessing the
httpd server. Now, if there is a power outage and the computer reboots,
noone will be able to access the server till I go home and log in again!

That is a NetworkManager issue, completely specific to NetworkManager.

Éric Brunet
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