Re: Using Git and separating translations into their own l10n-LL repository

[Kenneth Nielsen <k nielsen81 gmail com>]

2009/1/21 Matej Urban <matej urban gmail com>:
> Well, I'm sure the devels are able to make the system work in anyway
> they choose, that's why I yell so loudly to get all the po files of
> one language into one single directory. Now that would cut down the
> maintenance.

It's not just the devel. As I already said, I'm a translation
coordinator/commiter and I don't want them in a seperate folder,
because I want to be able to easily update the translation against the
source code, without having to fumble around with sub modules in git
and what have you.

> If you take a look the translation process, you see, that it consists
> of 3 major steps. Acquiring the file(s) to translate, translating and
> commiting.
>
> When you "choose" the file, you have to know what is already
> translated, what is reserved, proofed ... or under revision. You also
> have to have a quick access to pot files.

Damned lies alrayde have the options download everything from a
release set. Look all the way at the bottom of this page:
http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/da/gnome-2-26/ui/

>  How many clicks you need to
> do that?

So that would be one

> If it's more than one after visiting the page from your
> favorite bar, there is something like click/bandwidth/time, that can
> be improved, right?
>
> Translation by itself is an individual project and has nothing to do
> with the git or svn.
>
> How many times did you "correct" a single word, that was not syncd in
> many translations?

Never, because we have a wordlist which we use pretty consistently

> Last time I did that I had to "repair" 17 files.
> Why carry apple by apple from the market if you can take a basket with
> you. If you need more than one line in svn/git or one click on the
> website more than it's necessary, there is space for improvement,
> rignt. Getting the files up and down should mean NO effort.

Why? It is a task, and as such will require work. In any case, you
have already been told that it is certainly possilble to add the
option to upload several files at once in Damned Lies, in that case
you both have the options to get all files easily and you can have the
possibility to commit several files in  Damned Lies. The isn't that
enough, isn't that exactly what you want, so that we can leave the
repositories on their own and in a structure that makes sense i.e. one
module-wise.

> It should
> be easier then ftp-ing them to some server. The real work, with all
> the logging and diffing, crediting, upgrading and stuff should start
> from that point on.
>
> The last maintainer quit being a mantainer, because he had no time.
> The last zip that I sent him for 2.22 some time ago had 83 upgraded
> files. If someone sends me 83 files to commit, I'd break down and cry

Yeah, but perhaps you could have sent him something a little before it
reached 83 !?!

> Then I'd start again yelling about SINGLE FOLDER for one language.
> Less time needed, less bandwidth, less clicks, less nerves, more
> translating and proofing. A winning situation.
>
> M!
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Kenneth Nielsen <k nielsen81 gmail com> wrote:
>> 2009/1/19 Matej Urban <matej urban gmail com>:
>>> Thanks, Gil,
>>>
>>> I will wait and see, but since I'm a translator/mantainer and since I
>>> doubt I will be able to upload many files at once, the only difference
>>> so far I see, is that I will replace keyboard keystrokes for mouse
>>> clicks. There will be no changelog, which is an improvement :)
>>
>> I don't see how this solution will NOT improve your situation. When
>> you want to commit you just have to upload a file via a web-interface.
>> Which means that you cut both space and bandwitdth down to a minimum,
>> the only thing left is time. You do save the time it takes out to
>> check out the modules and fill out the ChangeLog, but you do not get
>> to save the time you could if you could commit more files at once. But
>> in my opinion that should never be made a possibility (and I'm a
>> translation coordinator not a developer), you use verision control
>> systems (of any kind) to track changes, which makes it easy to revert
>> if you do something wrong, but that hardly makes sense if you commit
>> very large changes.
>>
>> Regards Kenneth
>>
>> PS: I have a commit script I can send you if you want to use it in the
>> meantime, but let me know only if you want to use it as I would have
>> to nicefy it a bit before ot could be used by others.
>>
>>>
>>> Anyhow, in the end I will use whatever I'll need to do it, but keep
>>> nagging about it. For some reason, I really doubt that single dir for
>>> all po files, is a big programing deal. No obsolete clicks, no hassle,
>>> just pure translation work.
>>>
>>> Matej
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Gil Forcada <gforcada gnome org> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Actually a lot has changed:
>>>>
>>>> - for advanced-translators the same workflow will be maintained.
>>>> - for plain translators a web interface to commit languages will be
>>>> provided.
>>>>
>>>> So I think you fall in the second option and thus you will need to have
>>>> access to http://l10n.gnome.org to download updated po files (like you
>>>> can do right know), track its status (like as of January you can do
>>>> right now) and commit them in source repositories (like you will be able
>>>> to do in a not-so-distant-future, Claude said it has a beta working
>>>> version that does this, I'm right Claude?)
>>>>
>>>> So, all in all, your workflow will be a lot improved since you will only
>>>> have to download and upload files from/to http://l10n.gnome.org :)
>>>>
>>>> Hope I haven't said any lie!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> El dl 19 de 01 de 2009 a les 13:38 +0100, en/na Matej Urban va escriure:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm really trying to understand the changes. The title sais:
>>>>> Using Git and separating translations into their own l10n-LL repository
>>>>>
>>>>> The title implies that ALL and ONLY po files from ALL the languages UI
>>>>> and HELP will fall into "l10n-LL" repository, but that will not be the
>>>>> case, as I understand. I really don't know why this is so unpopular
>>>>> among developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I posted a bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=554257 and
>>>>> also a reminder that I don't fill-in the changelog entries. I can not
>>>>> find those great "scripts" in the gnome archive, that will do all the
>>>>> work in my place, nor can I write one, so doing it step by step is the
>>>>> only way I know. It takes TOO much time, TOO much bandwidth and TOO
>>>>> much space to maintain the language. Putting/linking/sync all po files
>>>>> in one single dir solves many problems for coords like myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please, guys, check again if there is a way to do that. Last
>>>>> coordinator dropped out of the translation game because this updating
>>>>> took too much of everything, especially his time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matej
>>>> --
>>>> gil forcada
>>>>
>>>> [ca] guifi.net - una xarxa lliure que no para de créixer
>>>> [en] guifi.net - a non-stopping free network
>>>> bloc: http://gil.badall.net
>>>>
>>>>
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