Re: Regarding OOXML and Microsoft patents

[Behdad Esfahbod <behdad behdad org>]

On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 20:09 +0100, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
> Miguel and Michael have done remarkable jobs in many situations, and
> as such deserve a lot of praise for those jobs.
> 
> This one, however, is not a remarkable job and deserves critic.

It's not about praise or doing a remarkable job.  It's about respect.

May I suggest that the rest of discussion in this thread be moved out of
foundation-list?  I don't think it's relevant to the foundation anymore.

behdad


> Regards,
> Rui
> 
> ps: is how can we do autoSpaceLikeWord95 a snide remark? Is 2004/48/EC
> a snide remark? all those things will affect us (you're from Europe,
> right?) very soon.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 04:05:48PM +0200, Christian F.K. Schaller wrote:
> > Hi Rui,
> > I just read through this whole thread from start to finish after having
> > gotten a little behind on my email. 
> > 
> > Personally the ODF versus OOXML discussion is only of secondary interest
> > to me, but one thing struck me through this whole debate. Rui, it is
> > fine to disagree with Miguel and Michael about the qualities or lack of
> > such of the OOXML specification. But I don't think the kind of rude
> > personal attacks and snide remarks you been targeting at Miguel and
> > Michael throughout this discussion belong anywhere. Miguel and Michael
> > have each done more for free software than most of us can even hope to
> > aspire to, and thus trying to smear them only makes you look bad and for
> > people to consider your arguments to be without merit.
> > 
> > I assume the reason this debate is on the gnome foundation list is
> > because there is a wish to have the GNOME foundation come out stronger
> > in favour of ODF. But if that is the goal I think a more professional
> > attitude is a better tool, as the current badmouthing do not entice me
> > at least, to get stronger GNOME endorsement ODF.
> > 
> > Christian
> > 
> > On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 21:34 +0100, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 03:37:06PM -0400, Miguel de Icaza wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > > > > Also, why do you say the format is open? Can you tell me how Word95 does
> > > > > > > auto-space ?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 	Can you tell me how ODF lays out paragraphs or does line-breaking or
> > > > > > wraps text to shaped embedded objects or ... ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nothing in OOXML spec explains how Word95 does autospace, so how can a
> > > > > full implementation of OOXML respect that tag's meaning?
> > > > 
> > > > The topic is addressed here:
> > > > 
> > > > http://blogs.msdn.com/brian_jones/archive/2007/01/09/specifying-the-document-settings.aspx
> > > 
> > > "Use OpenOffice.org 1.1 line spacing" this argument is funny, and was
> > > addressed at the Portuguese Technical Commission.
> > > 
> > > There is an essential difference between
> > > SecretRuleYouCan'tKnowOfProductFuBar and
> > > UnderSpecifiedRuleYouCanReadSourceCodeToCompleteKnowledge
> > > 
> > > > And it addresses in particular the issue of whether it should be removed
> > > > or not.
> > > 
> > > Nice, just another repeatition the argument of "legacy". What about
> > > KWord? Can it support legacy formats, or is legacy only for Microsoft?
> > > 
> > > If it's only for Microsoft (since KWord most definitely can't do it),
> > > then how can it be part of an open standard?
> > > 
> > > > Of course this is my position on technical merits, others implementors
> > > > might have other views.   On political and activist grounds you might
> > > > also reach different conclusions, but I will find it difficult in the
> > > > future to say with a straight face in court "well, they did not specify
> > > > enough, so this format created lock-in". 
> > > > 
> > > > > Specially from people who work for a company that is strategically
> > > > > aligned with Microsoft.
> > > > 
> > > > Ah, the old guilt by association way of constructing a logical argument.
> > > > Always a fine choice.
> > > 
> > > Well, pot, meet kettle. However, you are the one who said almost word
> > > for word what another Microsoft employee said at the Portuguese Meeting.
> > > 
> > > It's fortunate that he didn't speak Portuguese, this is how I could tell
> > > you used almost word for word what he said. Do they give lectures on how
> > > to answer? I'm curious :)
> > > 
> > > Rui
> > > 
> 
> -- 
> Frink!
> Today is Boomtime, the 66th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3173
> + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
> + Whatever you do will be insignificant,
> | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
> + So let's do it...?
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-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
        -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759