Re: Planning for GNOME 3.0

[Emmanuele Bassi <ebassi gmail com>]

On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 08:21 -0700, Sandy Armstrong wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Emmanuele Bassi <ebassi gmail com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 14:34 +0200, Sebastian Pölsterl wrote:
> >
> >> I think it would be a big mistake to omit applets in the new gnome desktop
> >> evolution.
> >
> > why?
> 
> Because users want some functionality to be conveniently available
> from the time they log in to the time they log out.

isn't it already? I can launch gnome-dictionary from the time I log in
to the time I log out, and yet all I need is either a launcher (the fact
that a launcher is an applet is an implementation detail: it really
doesn't need to be) or a key combination?

> > we've been changing the platform gradually over the years, mostly by
> > deprecating stuff and including new functionality. nevertheless, I
> > haven't heard a single justification for the continued existence of
> > "applets".
> 
> See above.

that is not a reason. well, that's the reason to have launchers or be
able to launch application by simply using a key combination.

> > what do applets provide, nowadays, and are they even remotely useful?
> > what can deskbar-applet provide that cannot be implemented with
> > something that does not sit inside a 24x24 icon on the most valued piece
> > of screen real estate? isn't a gnome-do approach equivalent to the
> > deskbar-applet?
> 
> I personally use gnome-do to access Tomboy more than I use our
> applet/tray icon.  Do you think you and I are typical?  Would be nice
> if somebody did some work to research this instead of just saying "I
> feel this way, so why don't you?".

I'm not sating that at all. I'm saying: why hasn't anyone started even
remotely questioning the existence of applets after two major release
cycles? I know I did, and I know that during the user experience
hackfest applets on the panel were a topic of discussion. what I'm
missing is the counterpart: why do applets feel like an important bit of
the desktop that we need to have them. right now, I don't have anyone
demonstrating that anything that can be done with applets cannot be done
with more interesting and less intruding ways than an icon sitting all
day on my panel.

> But going back to your previous statement, doesn't the use of
> something like gnome-do also increase my login time?  But don't a
> great many users take that hit willingly?

I have my doubts about that. I also have my doubts that users do change
their session startup, or add new applets on their panel that are not
launchers.

> > clock; and the volume is now becoming a notification area icon since
> > basically everyone has media keys on their keyboard and don't need an
> > on-screen slider anymore.
> 
> Wow, that statement strikes me as very out-of-touch with reality.

not at all. I'm constantly watching people use their media keys because
a slider is not really they way you tweak your volume. on netbooks, with
limited screen real estate, 24x24 pixels devoted to an icon constantly
showing the volume are kind of wasted space; and using the crappy
touchpads that come with netbooks, hitting the slider is a feat in and
of itself.

> Yes, we have all abused the hell out of the notification area, despite
> HIG to the contrary.  Tomboy supports it because users demand
> applet-like functionality even without a GNOME panel.  One of the most
> common ways Tomboy is used is to be added to GNOME session startup and
> run in the notification area.  Do you think this abuse of the
> notification area to emulate applet behavior is the right thing to
> promote in the gnome-shell era?

no. my point being exactly the opposite: we should get rid of all the
crap that stays on the panel -- including notification area icons that
are not for transient state notification.

ciao,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
Emmanuele Bassi,
W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name
B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi