Re: Planning for GNOME 3.0

[Shaun McCance <shaunm gnome org>]

On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 22:18 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
> no need to Cc me in: I'm subscribe to d-d-l.
> 
> On Sun, 2009-04-19 at 16:02 +0200, Sebastian Pölsterl wrote:
>  
> > > what do applets provide, nowadays, and are they even remotely useful?
> > > what can deskbar-applet provide that cannot be implemented with
> > > something that does not sit inside a 24x24 icon on the most valued piece
> > > of screen real estate? isn't a gnome-do approach equivalent to the
> > > deskbar-applet? why tomboy-applet is so special? it's basically a
> > > launcher with a custom context menu. also, starting up deskbar-applet
> > > *and* tomboy as applets on my panel causes my desktop more to start up
> > > on login; not great turn ons, especially when there are developers out
> > > there trying to get the boot-to-UI process down in the seconds range.
> > > 
> 
> > I agree that the current applet paradigm is outdated and it doesn't do
> > well when you have a lot of applets or an applet that takes some time to
> > load. But those are the problems we want to solve, right? I'm not saying
> > that we should keep the whole applets system, but I want something
> > similar to it.
> 
> why? why should something continuously live on my panel and occupy
> space?
> 
> >  I don't care if it's called applet or widget or whatever,
> > if it's in the panel or somewhere else. For me the idea of applets is
> > that you can access information/functionality with minimum effort. Let's
> > say deskbar-applet would be an application started from the menu. That
> > would make deskbar-applet useless, because it should help you starting
> > applications and doing tasks with less effort. Now if I have to start
> > deskbar-applet first, I can just open the application I want to in the
> > first place.
> 
> then we don't need an icon, but we need something completely different;
> something that pops up (say) when you press F12; or something that comes
> up when I start typing on an empty workspace.
> 
> I just don't see the need to have something constantly visible on a
> panel or on my screen, when it's all about user-initiated actions. the
> tomboy-applet doesn't need to stay in my notification area (why on earth
> does it stay in my notification area is another matter entirely, but
> let's overlook that for a second) when I don't need to write a note? why
> does it have to start when my desktop starts, when it can start when I
> do need to write a note and be unloaded afterwards?

The Tomboy applet is an extremely convenient way to access
your notes.  You think of it as wasting valuable screen
real estate.  But to a heavy note-taking person, it's just
really convenient.

I notice there's a clock built into the gnome-shell panel.
Why do you want to have a clock constantly sitting there
showing you the time?  That's probably a total waste of
space for a lot of people.  But not for me.  I use the
clock and the calendar drop-down all the time.

I have the weather applet on my panel.  Still; even though
the new clock applet has built-in weather.  I still have
the old-school weather applet because I can click it for
more details.  I do that often enough that I like using
up a 48x24 piece of screen for it.

There is no doubt that the entire interaction model of
our current applets system sucks.  And by interaction
model, I mean a complete lack thereof.  I remember some
years back Davyd talking about revamping applets.  He'd
identified different types of applets and talked about
how we might support real user tasks more cleanly.

The reason applets are still alive is that people find
them useful.  Could applets be replaced by something
much more sane?  I'm sure.  But throwing away applets
without offering an appealing alternative is not a
solution.  It's curing a hangnail with amputation.

--
Shaun, who still keeps Wanda on his panel