Re: International Space Station Images

[Maxim Udushlivy <maxim udushlivy gmail com>]

Murray Cumming wrote:
> [snip]
>   
> > A fight because bullsh*t is a cancer. For another example check this
> > "review" that puts gtkmm not only above other wrappers but almost on one
> > level with GTK+ itself:
> > http://freshmeat.net/articles/view/928
> >
> > This article is a direct result of gtkmm presentation that tries to
> > expose that wrapper as a savior by lowering GTK+. This cancer is being
> > spread for years and the campaign has a deafening success, I myself was
> > hypnotized once.
> >     
> [snip]
>
> This is so vague that it's difficult to respond. I assume that you object
> to gtkmm developers suggesting that people use gtkmm instead of GTK+ to
> developer applications. So I'll note that
> - The GTK+ developers recommend that people use language bindings to
> develop applications. They say it's easier.
> - gtkmm is meant for people who like C++. It's obviously better than GTK+
> for C++ coders.
> So I'm not sure what the charges against me are.
>
> To your other points: People (me included) don't seem to understand what
> you are suggesting or the implications of it, and are offended by their
> understanding so far. When that happens it's best to calmly think again
> about how you are presenting it. If people still don't agree with you then
> that's life. We all have different opinions and we can't all fight about
> them. Some people call that politics, but it's just getting things done.
>
> Murray Cumming
> murrayc murrayc com
> www.murrayc.com
> www.openismus.com
>
>
>   
Murray, I was thinking once that you present gtkmm as something superior 
to GTK+ on purpose, but recently I changed my opinion. Your desire to 
expose gtkmm in the most advantageous fashion is understandable. But how 
can you explain this phrase from gtkmm website: "gtkmm is a GUI toolkit 
and nothing more, and it strives to be the best C++ GUI toolkit"? There 
are also strange things in gtkmm FAQ, for example "why use gtkmm instead 
of GTK+" - note the word "instead". If that all was said unconsciously, 
may be it's time to make gtkmm more loyal to GTK+? My negative attitude 
towards gtkmm was increased also after somebody started a (paid?) google 
ad campaign promoting a gtkmm tutorial chapter about Glade.

Regarding my proposals... I said that I want to retire from free 
software (I have a different mentality), so I hope nobody could accuse 
me that I seek selfish gains here. I gathered some knowledge during 
development of Gideon and I wanted to share it with the Gnome community. 
Oliver Stone said recently that he criticizes America because he loves 
it. My points are sharp, here is a full list of what I wanted to say 
(just to *say* and may be discuss, not to push):

1. State openly that gtkmm website contains subtle (unintentional?) 
lies. (This was the most important for me personally.)
2. Propose a position of a Moderator. This could automatically increase 
signal/noise ratio of mailing lists; debates won't be endless; people 
would afraid to lie; less politics and more activity; Gnome will be more 
comfortable for people from Eastern Europe and Asia (some if not all 
eastern cultures are not compatible with meritocracy!)
3. Show the benefits of a split of Gnome and GTK+: this eliminates 
technology and ideology mixture, so both projects could improve faster 
since they have different goals.
4. Propose Gnome certification (originally I was thinking about it as a 
replacement to the HIG, but I was shown that the HIG is needed, so it is 
a complement now).
5. Formulate the Gideon Principle and propose it as a cornerstone for 
Gnome HIG and certification.
6. Discuss the possibility of contribution of Gideon to Gnome since 
Gnome hosts GTK+. (I admit that I sounded frivolous on the 
"Contribution" thread, but that's because I was not sure that such 
contribution could happen and is fully sensible.)
7. Propose to narrow Gnome by ideology (this is a short formulation of 
an implementation style - not a HIG, but something like a motto: "Simple 
interface, great functionality, coherent behavior") (In fact that's my 
motto that I use when I develop GUI applications. It is a 
user-understandable reformulation of the Gideon Principle)

Hmm... may be something else I can't recall now. Some of these points 
raised *after* I made my first post here.