Re: gtk 2.8 for gnome 2.12

[Miguel de Icaza <miguel ximian com>]

Hello,

> We had already said apps should go forward with caution back in early
> June[1] (and apps likely started doing so sooner; it wasn't until
> Frederic brought up the issue[2] that we started considering not using
> gtk+-2.8 for Gnome 2.12).  We said "with caution" at the time because

The discussion that you are pointing to had plenty of people disagreeing
on it.  I hardly can see that long thread as a resolution.

The first time this was proposed as official was Lluis' post from a day
or two ago, after the deadline had passed.

We use time-lines for a reason, so we can plan and execute without
rushing things out.

Notice that Gtk 2.8 had a number of major themes listed on its web page
(Cairo support and RGBA visuals).   Do we have a theme for Gnome 2.12?
Lacking a theme, we should stick to the published dates.

> worried about needing to revert).  Also, as already pointed out by
> Vincent[3] and Johnathan[4], apps have done this, it fixes bugs that
> are unfixable otherwise, and UI freeze isn't the last opportunity to
> take advantage of the new API.

And most of those "unfixable bugs" are "wishlist" items, we are not
talking about crasher bugs here, nor are we talking about something that
would fundamentally stop someone from getting their work done.  They all
probably are in the eye-candy department. 

> Really, though, the decision was made and finalized after it had been
> brought up lots of times.  I'm sorry, but I don't see your current
> reason as cause enough for us to bring it onto the discussion table
> again.

Because there is a violation of the agreed timelines and the promise
that we have made to our users and the ISVs that ship the software.

If you can not live without Gtk 2.8 for another minute, you can install
your own version of Gtk 2.8 and build your own desktop with 2.8.

But there is no reason to tarnish Gnome's reputation because some people
feel that Gtk 2.8 is too cool to wait.  Shipping a slower, more fragile
version of Gnome and which in addition will not benefit for the most
part on any of the new 2.8 stuff (if people are following the rules)
seems like a loosing proposition.

Miguel.