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Re: [orca-list] Why feedback of Orca in OS Linux is Annoyingly slower than NVDA in OS Windows? What Should I do for it?

Thanks for that perspective.  It makes sense, although I'm not sure I can solve the problem I tried to describe.  I appreciate your information. 


Al


On 6/14/21 5:14 AM, Rynhardt Kruger via orca-list wrote:

Hi Al,

Flat review allows you to read the text as it is laid out in the
current application, while your cursor keys typically read the text in
the current control. Therefore your cursor keys will usually read text
in its logical flow, while flat review will read text as it appears
visually.

To give an example, say you have a website with a navigation bar at
the left containing links like "home", "about", "contact us" etc, and
the main text to the right of that. Reading the main text with your
cursor keys, you might get something like:

"Welcome to the website of Pan Ironlid.
On this website I write about my software developed under the banner
of Ironlid solutions. Bla bla bla."

However, reading the website line by line with flat review, you will
hear lines consisting of text from the navigation bar along with text
from the main body, as that is how the website is laid out on screen,
so thus:

"Home    Welcome to the website of Pan Ironlid.
About   On this website I write about my software developed under the
banner of Ironlid solutions. Bla bla bla."

Hth,

Rynhardt

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 10:00 PM Al Sten-Clanton
<albert e sten_clanton verizon net> wrote:

I might agree with this, but I think I have a bad understanding of what flat review is supposed to do.


I had thought that, for example, the key for reading the current line, in my case number pad five, would read 
where my cursor is.  The other number pad keys would read in their various directions, much as with Speakup.


What I've found is that sometimes the keys work as I expected, as when I read this message, but often they do not.  If 
I try using the current line key in the original message, it reads "inbox," the subject, and two more things 
that I forget.  Using the other number pad keys does not bring me to the message body.  On the website 
radio.macinmind.com, where I just tested, flat review sometimes read what I thought it would and sometimes not, and I 
haven't yet figured out when it does which.


I've had this problem for a long time, but I didn't mention it that I remember, so that's on me.  It mattered 
most to me when I wanted to read around where I was without having to move the arrow keys, so that getting 
out of flat review would bring me right back to where I was.  Anyway, since I recall no complaints of this 
sort during the time I've been on this list, I thought it was time now to ask what I'm getting wrong.  Then, 
maybe I can think better about what people are discussing here.


Thanks for any information or perspectives.


Al


On 6/13/21 3:32 PM, Rynhardt Kruger via orca-list wrote:

Hi,

There are definitely times when reviewing the screen is necessary. I therefore propose that the user can 
switch between reviewing the current object, and reviewing the screen. My suggestion is that the user can 
toggle between these two review modes with the key currently used for entering flat review, as flat review is 
automatically entered when a review key is pressed.

Regards,

Rynhardt


On Sun, 13 Jun 2021, 15:39 Kyle via orca-list, <orca-list gnome org> wrote:

When I'm trying to review the screen using flat review, most of the time
it is because I need to find a certain spot and simulate a mouse click
or I need to spell a word where my caret is, usually when browsing, but
also when I find a button, an element in a drop-down box or another
similar item that I need to be able to spell. I tend to care more about
what is on the screen in the current window at this point than what is
in the current object. I rather like the idea of "current" keys not
using flat review unless flat review is toggled on either by using flat
review navigation or by explicitly toggling flat review on. But a whole
new layer of complexity that is object navigation must be available only
to users who know what they are doing and explicitly want this behavior.
The last time I needed NVDA for anything, I found it fairly easy to use
overall, but there were two things about it that made me want to throw
my computer out the window. Those two things were the browsing virtual
buffer and the rather convoluted hierarchical object navigation that is
nothing at all like what someone looking at the screen would see, and
caused me much pain just trying to get around my screen in places where
tab focus and other keyboard focus things didn't work as well as they
could have. Is flat review perfect? by no means. But the behavior and
performance of flat review must be improved wherever possible. It must
not be shoved aside for something as esoteric to the end user as object
navigation.

~Kyle

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