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Re: [orca-list] If you are using Mate with Braille please contact me.

I am using Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. I have not upgraded to 10.04 yet and since it is my primary system (I don't have a spare computer at the moment) I hesitate to do so since I am using it for some work. 

Tom


On Mon, 4 May 2020, Alex ARNAUD wrote:


Could you remind me, are you using Ubuntu Mate 20.04? If not, could you please try with Ubuntu 20.04 if the 
issue occur with it?

Best regards.

Le 04/05/2020 à 16:30, Tom Masterson a écrit :
      I am using Mate 1.24 from a PPA repository.  I would have too look to tell you which repository for 
sure.

      Tom


      On Mon, 4 May 2020, Alex ARNAUD wrote:

            Hello Tom,

            Which Mate version are you using? Are you sure do you have the default Mate? I know Ubuntu Mate 
does a lot of customization on Mate

            Best regards.

            Le 30/04/2020 à 21:50, Tom Masterson via orca-list a écrit :
                  My desktop has plenty of files and orca does not respond to any keys so I would surmise 
that nothing has focus.  I know alt-tab does
            nothing in my case at
                  least as far as orca is concerned.

                  Tom


                  On Thu, 30 Apr 2020, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

                        + Orca-list for MATE folks.

                        Hey Tom.

                        Thanks! Here's the relevant part of your debug.out (with timestamps and "INFO:" 
trimmed for readability and extra space added to
            group the
                        checks together):

                        Looking at [window | ] from [application | marco] marco
                        [window | ] lacks state active
                        [window | ] is not active and showing, or is iconified

                        Looking at [frame | Top Panel] from [application | mate-panel] mate-panel
                        [frame | Top Panel] lacks state active
                        [frame | Top Panel] is not active and showing, or is iconified

                        Looking at [frame | Bottom Panel] from [application | mate-panel] mate-panel
                        [frame | Bottom Panel] lacks state active
                        [frame | Bottom Panel] is not active and showing, or is iconified

                        Looking at [frame | Desktop] from [application | caja] /usr/bin/caja
                        [frame | Desktop] lacks state active
                        [frame | Desktop] is not active and showing, or is iconified

                        Unable to find active window from [list of all applications, even those which don't 
have any windows, e.g. Orca,
            mate-settings-daemon, etc.]

                        So... The question is what -- if anything -- are you in or has focus? My guess is 
that it's safe to eliminate the top and bottom
            panels. And
                        if memory serves me the window from Marco is what you wind up in when you use 
Alt+Tab. So you're not in that. The only candidate
            is the
                        Desktop.

                        You can do a functional test to see if the Desktop is active by putting some files in 
$HOME/Desktop. Then, when you start up and
            Orca just
                        says "Screen reader on," press navigation keys which should work on the Desktop like 
Home, End, Left, Right, Up, Down. If one of
            those keys
                        causes the selected/focused item to change, then that's where focus is. In which 
case, the MATE folks should see about adding the
            "active"
                        state to accessible state set of the Desktop frame. Then Orca should tell you you're 
on the Desktop and if it finds a focused
            icon, present
                        that as well.

                        On the other hand, if pressing those keys doesn't work without your having first 
explicitly given focus to the Desktop, then I
            suspect that
                        when you start up your session, absolutely nothing has focus and you are not 
physically in any window. Thus Orca has nothing to
            present as the
                        active window or focused item. If this is indeed the case, perhaps the MATE folks 
could consider putting focus *somewhere*, like
            the Desktop,
                        for all users.

                        Related aside: Orca used to say "no focus" to indicate that condition, but doing so 
reliably was problematic: There are often very
            brief
                        moments where one is in limbo between a window becoming inactive and a window 
becoming active. If Orca doesn't wait a sufficiently
            long enough
                        time, Orca would be regularly spamming you with "no focus" messages. On the flip 
side, if Orca waits too long to tell you nothing
            has focus,
                        you've probably already reached this conclusion due to the silence and caused something to 
gain focus rendering the eventual "no
            focus"
                        message pointless. I had tried to strike a balance in between these two extremes, but "no 
focus" messages still crept through on
            occasion and
                        users complained. So the "no focus" message got removed.

                        I'm dealing with some Chromium issues at the moment, but I'm hoping the MATE users -- 
and in some cases MATE contributors, like
            Hypra -- will
                        read the above and either fix the missing state (if the Desktop really is active) or 
see about causing the Desktop to gain focus
            or clue me in
                        to something I'm not aware of. :)

                        Thanks!!
                        --joanie

                        On 4/30/20 14:44, Tom Masterson wrote:
                              Hi Joanie

                              Here is a debug with orca starting.  Not a high priority as I can easily work 
around it but might be interesting to know why
            orca
                              says nothing but "screenreader on" until I go to the menu.

                              Tom

                              On Thu, 30 Apr 2020, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

                                    Hey Tom.

                                    When Orca is first started, it tries to find the active application 
window. If it finds it, it should present it. Also
                                    if it finds it, it then searches for the focused object in that window. 
So my guess is that Orca is not finding an
                                    active window. If you care as to why, capturing a full debug.out would be 
helpful. I'm happy to take a look.

                                    If the scenario is that Orca is being started automatically along with 
the desktop, the approach of relaunching Orca
                                    and cycling through levels presumably won't work. But on 
https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca/Debugging, under item 2,
                                    you'll find something which should work, namely using 
orca-customizations.py to set up the file and debug level
                                    ahead of time.

                                    HTH.
                                    --joanie



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