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Re: [orca-list] Should Orca treat navigational bars as lists or not

I'd have to do some checking, but if role="presentation" is used, I believe user agents are expected to remove the list-related semantics from the accessibility tree and just expose the descendants as if they were in divs/spans instead. When that happens, Orca doesn't know it's a list. Problem solved. 

On 2/17/20 21:23, Nolan Darilek wrote:
At the risk of further muddying the waters, I'd assume that `role="presentation"` should be what determines if a list is presented as a list or not. If a given list is presentational, I'd expect to reach navs and such via object navigation, not by navigating to a list that Orca doesn't present as such. 

On 2/17/20 2:06 PM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza wrote:
For me option 2. Prevent "l" (and "i") from treating those navbars as lists? 

Thanks.

On 2/17/20 4:09 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Hey all.
Changing the subject and seeking input on something Alex pointed out. Given a navigation bar of links at the top of a page, Orca doesn't present it as a list; it just presents the line of links. However, you can still use Orca's structural navigation (e.g. "l") to get to these lists. 

Here's an example: https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.4/components/navbar/

Note that there are actually two lists in the navbar on that page.

Would you like Orca to:

1. Announce the number of items on the list before presenting each of
   the navbars on that line?

2. Prevent "l" (and "i") from treating those navbars as lists?

3. Leave things as they are?
Note that these choices are mutually exclusive. You can only pick one. Note also that "make it a preference!" is not a good answer. ;) Orca already has way too many preferences. Let's see if we can agree on the best way to handle this. 

Thanks!
--joanie

On 2/17/20 19:07, Alex ARNAUD via orca-list wrote:

Le 17/02/2020 à 18:33, Nolan Darilek a écrit :

 Hey folks,

Hello Nolan,
I see from some recent Orca commit messages that there may be changes in whether given web elements render on the same line or not. 
It's due to some issues I've reported.
I upgraded Orca last week, and found that a number of pages/apps now render differently. In particular, Bootstrap menus which I've long assumed are horizontal, now appear vertical. See the navbars on this page, for instance: 


https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.4/components/navbar/
I confirm what you describe and I confirm you that the menu is horizontal. 

I see multiple issues here:
1. Orca doesn't announce the list on the menu of bootstrap whereas the l shortcut jumps to the list 2. Orca reads now vertically the menu. The main reason here is to let it announce when you come / leave the list. For that Orca needs to put the caret into the list. (Probably Orca could announce all the horizontal list at the same time, this will reduce for you the amount of arrow you've to do) 

Do you know how NVDA handles such case?

Best regards.

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Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
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