Re: [orca-list] Should Orca treat navigational bars as lists or not

[Kyle <kyle4jesus gmail com>]

I'm for treating it as any other list, except that some of us wouldn't 
want item counts spoken. But there are plenty of other lists where item 
counts are spoken. So I think we should be able to turn this on and off 
for all lists everywhere. My suggestion would be to speak item counts 
when preferences -> speech -> verbosity is verbose, but don't speak any 
item counts anywhere when preferences --> speech -> verbosity is brief. 
Then the navbar lists could be treated as any other list, speaking item 
counts when the verbosity option is set verbose, and not speaking them 
when verbosity is brief.

~Kyle

On 2/17/20 2:09 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> Hey all.
>
> Changing the subject and seeking input on something Alex pointed out. 
> Given a navigation bar of links at the top of a page, Orca doesn't 
> present it as a list; it just presents the line of links. However, you 
> can still use Orca's structural navigation (e.g. "l") to get to these 
> lists.
>
> Here's an example: https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.4/components/navbar/
>
> Note that there are actually two lists in the navbar on that page.
>
> Would you like Orca to:
>
> 1. Announce the number of items on the list before presenting each of
>    the navbars on that line?
>
> 2. Prevent "l" (and "i") from treating those navbars as lists?
>
> 3. Leave things as they are?
>
> Note that these choices are mutually exclusive. You can only pick one. 
> Note also that "make it a preference!" is not a good answer. ;) Orca 
> already has way too many preferences. Let's see if we can agree on the 
> best way to handle this.
>
> Thanks!
> --joanie
>
> On 2/17/20 19:07, Alex ARNAUD via orca-list wrote:
> > Le 17/02/2020 à 18:33, Nolan Darilek a écrit :
> > >  Hey folks,
> > Hello Nolan,
> >
> > > I see from some recent Orca commit messages that there may be 
> > > changes in whether given web elements render on the same line or not.
> > It's due to some issues I've reported.
> >
> > > I upgraded Orca last week, and found that a number of pages/apps now 
> > > render differently. In particular, Bootstrap menus which I've long 
> > > assumed are horizontal, now appear vertical. See the navbars on this 
> > > page, for instance:
> > >
> > >
> > > https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.4/components/navbar/
> > I confirm what you describe and I confirm you that the menu is 
> > horizontal.
> >
> > I see multiple issues here:
> > 1. Orca doesn't announce the list on the menu of bootstrap whereas 
> > the l shortcut jumps to the list
> > 2. Orca reads now vertically the menu. The main reason here is to let 
> > it announce when you come / leave the list. For that Orca needs to 
> > put the caret into the list.
> > (Probably Orca could announce all the horizontal list at the same 
> > time, this will reduce for you the amount of arrow you've to do)
> >
> > Do you know how NVDA handles such case?
> >
> > Best regards.
> >
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> > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>
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