Re: [orca-list] Should Orca treat navigational bars as lists or not

[Nolan Darilek <nolan thewordnerd info>]

At the risk of further muddying the waters, I'd assume that 
`role="presentation"` should be what determines if a list is presented 
as a list or not. If a given list is presentational, I'd expect to reach 
navs and such via object navigation, not by navigating to a list that 
Orca doesn't present as such.

On 2/17/20 2:06 PM, José Vilmar Estácio de Souza wrote:
> For me option 2. Prevent "l" (and "i") from treating those navbars as 
> lists?
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 2/17/20 4:09 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > Hey all.
> >
> > Changing the subject and seeking input on something Alex pointed out. 
> > Given a navigation bar of links at the top of a page, Orca doesn't 
> > present it as a list; it just presents the line of links. However, 
> > you can still use Orca's structural navigation (e.g. "l") to get to 
> > these lists.
> >
> > Here's an example: https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.4/components/navbar/
> >
> > Note that there are actually two lists in the navbar on that page.
> >
> > Would you like Orca to:
> >
> > 1. Announce the number of items on the list before presenting each of
> >    the navbars on that line?
> >
> > 2. Prevent "l" (and "i") from treating those navbars as lists?
> >
> > 3. Leave things as they are?
> >
> > Note that these choices are mutually exclusive. You can only pick 
> > one. Note also that "make it a preference!" is not a good answer. ;) 
> > Orca already has way too many preferences. Let's see if we can agree 
> > on the best way to handle this.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > --joanie
> >
> > On 2/17/20 19:07, Alex ARNAUD via orca-list wrote:
> > > Le 17/02/2020 à 18:33, Nolan Darilek a écrit :
> > > >  Hey folks,
> > > Hello Nolan,
> > >
> > > > I see from some recent Orca commit messages that there may be 
> > > > changes in whether given web elements render on the same line or not.
> > > It's due to some issues I've reported.
> > >
> > > > I upgraded Orca last week, and found that a number of pages/apps 
> > > > now render differently. In particular, Bootstrap menus which I've 
> > > > long assumed are horizontal, now appear vertical. See the navbars 
> > > > on this page, for instance:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.4/components/navbar/
> > > I confirm what you describe and I confirm you that the menu is 
> > > horizontal.
> > >
> > > I see multiple issues here:
> > > 1. Orca doesn't announce the list on the menu of bootstrap whereas 
> > > the l shortcut jumps to the list
> > > 2. Orca reads now vertically the menu. The main reason here is to 
> > > let it announce when you come / leave the list. For that Orca needs 
> > > to put the caret into the list.
> > > (Probably Orca could announce all the horizontal list at the same 
> > > time, this will reduce for you the amount of arrow you've to do)
> > >
> > > Do you know how NVDA handles such case?
> > >
> > > Best regards.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
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> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html