GNOME.org
 

Re: [orca-list] Accessibility broken under Wayland Fedora 31

Hi Devin,
That is not completely so simple. First because KDE requires very a high work, Chrys could tell us his point of view, but in my understanding, making it accessible implies a lot of work. Nexcxt and in particular, we will always need GTK. Thunderbird, Firefox use it. Other important apps too. So while switching to KDE is an option, we need to ensure GTK keeps a minimal accessibility. Finally, I am not certain that Qt fixes all the Wayland issus, so it is important to examine what Wayland lacks too. All the more as we see that all the team GTK is not exactly on the same line. Beyond a feeling "they are closed" from some of them, the project manager and one major contributor just needs to understand, to see real human nusers. Hence a meeting at FOSDEM and next to this event. To establish a more human dialog, to make the most opened persons understand all the consequence of things. So everything is not lost yet. Just we need noise, to prepare human meeting, and we need to keep all options opened to maintain our hope. 

regards


regards

Le 04/11/2019 à 18:15, Devin Prater a écrit :

If QT and KDE will be of better accommodation, then I believe we should move there, instead of the GTK folks 
who still think bling people do not use computers. If we stay with them, they will continue to be dead weight 
to us.


On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:21 AM, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL via orca-list <orca-list gnome org> wrote:

Hi,

I speak under Joanie's, Samuel's and Alex's control. I try staying in the public assetions and rely on facts 
only.

1. No, Wayland is not accessible yet. The keyboard events and other things are not supported. See 
https://wiki.freedesktop.org/www/Accessibility/Wayland/

2. No, GTK4 as toolkit will not support this too. They do not want to handle accessibility. They consider it 
should be handled by the window compositor. See 
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/merge_requests/1120#note_634772 and 
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/issues/1739

They consider a11y as an ugly implementation and want to get rid of it. They think no one use Orca. And do 
not imagine for which usages. They consider blind users should use other OS.

3. Consequences:
- any feedback on Gitlab about this bugs is useful, provided that it is constructive. We need to show them we 
exist, have the right to use free software and GUIs, and we are not so few. And even if GUI is not the best 
from a theorical point of view, it is the social will of beginners and necessary to accomplish some actions.
- Before or after FOSDEM, Hypra and GNOME get involved in a hackfest to establish a roadmap: what should be 
done, where (Wayland or the toolkits), how to fund, etc. Thanks to this IRL meeting, I hope we will show what 
a blind user does, why he is legitimate, what is technically necessary, and who can get involved. According 
to this meeting issue, we might help Qt instead of GTK. I hope this meting will be a good beginning and not a 
break.

Recommendations:
- prefer the bug reports above instead of here, it will be more useful.
- do not accept to hear "a blind user should use a CLI". Right in theory, but no for beginners and medium 
end-user.
- Stay constructive: it will help us in the future dialog. But you can explain the law, the international 
rights.

Regards


Le 04/11/2019 à 15:53, Michał Zegan a écrit :

So, I use that excuse to ask, what is the current status of wayland
accessibility? I mean there are problems in f31 as said, but before f31
for example? Things like flat review mouse clicking and stuff? I didn't
track it and bugs were moved to gitlab so no clue.

W dniu 04.11.2019 o 15:50, Joanmarie Diggs pisze:

Hi Pavel.

I cannot do anything about that within Orca. Sorry!

--joanie

On 11/4/19 3:08 AM, Pavel Vlček wrote:

Hi all,

Accessibility is broken under Fedora 31 / default session - Wayland.
What is not speaking?

- gparted

- Anaconda installer

- all aps with sudo and sudo -E

when I switch to xorg, all works perfectly as expected, but switching
session to xorg requires to set password with passwd, because gdm
doesn't show select session button without password.

Thanks,

Pavel


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
[Date Prev][Date Next]   [Thread Prev][Thread Next]   [Thread Index] [Date Index] [Author Index]