Re: [orca-list] Accessibility broken under Wayland Fedora 31

[Jean-Philippe MENGUAL <jpmengual hypra fr>]

Hi,

I speak under Joanie's, Samuel's and Alex's control. I try staying in 
the public assetions and rely on facts only.

1. No, Wayland is not accessible yet. The keyboard events and other 
things are not supported. See 
https://wiki.freedesktop.org/www/Accessibility/Wayland/

2. No, GTK4 as toolkit will not support this too. They do not want to 
handle accessibility. They consider it should be handled by the window 
compositor. See 
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/merge_requests/1120#note_634772 and 
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/issues/1739

They consider a11y as an ugly implementation and want to get rid of it. 
They think no one use Orca. And do not imagine for which usages. They 
consider blind users should use other OS.

3. Consequences:
- any feedback on Gitlab about this bugs is useful, provided that it is 
constructive. We need to show them we exist, have the right to use free 
software and GUIs, and we are not so few. And even if GUI is not the 
best from a theorical point of view, it is the social will of beginners 
and necessary to accomplish some actions.
- Before or after FOSDEM, Hypra and GNOME get involved in a hackfest to 
establish a roadmap: what should be done, where (Wayland or the 
toolkits), how to fund, etc. Thanks to this IRL meeting, I hope we will 
show what a blind user does, why he is legitimate, what is technically 
necessary, and who can get involved. According to this meeting issue, we 
might help Qt instead of GTK. I hope this meting will be a good 
beginning and not a break.

Recommendations:
- prefer the bug reports above instead of here, it will be more useful.
- do not accept to hear "a blind user should use a CLI". Right in 
theory, but no for beginners and medium end-user.
- Stay constructive: it will help us in the future dialog. But you can 
explain the law, the international rights.

Regards


Le 04/11/2019 à 15:53, Michał Zegan a écrit :
> So, I use that excuse to ask, what is the current status of wayland
> accessibility? I mean there are problems in f31 as said, but before f31
> for example? Things like flat review mouse clicking and stuff? I didn't
> track it and bugs were moved to gitlab so no clue.
>
> W dniu 04.11.2019 o 15:50, Joanmarie Diggs pisze:
> > Hi Pavel.
> >
> > I cannot do anything about that within Orca. Sorry!
> >
> > --joanie
> >
> > On 11/4/19 3:08 AM, Pavel Vlček wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Accessibility is broken under Fedora 31 / default session - Wayland.
> > > What is not speaking?
> > >
> > > - gparted
> > >
> > > - Anaconda installer
> > >
> > > - all aps with sudo and sudo -E
> > >
> > > when I switch to xorg, all works perfectly as expected, but switching
> > > session to xorg requires to set password with passwd, because gdm
> > > doesn't show select session button without password.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Pavel
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html