Re: [orca-list] Accessibility broken under Wayland Fedora 31

[Devin Prater <r d t prater gmail com>]

If QT and KDE will be of better accommodation, then I believe we should move there, instead of the GTK folks 
who still think bling people do not use computers. If we stay with them, they will continue to be dead weight 
to us.

> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:21 AM, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL via orca-list <orca-list gnome org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I speak under Joanie's, Samuel's and Alex's control. I try staying in the public assetions and rely on 
> facts only.
>
> 1. No, Wayland is not accessible yet. The keyboard events and other things are not supported. See 
> https://wiki.freedesktop.org/www/Accessibility/Wayland/
>
> 2. No, GTK4 as toolkit will not support this too. They do not want to handle accessibility. They consider 
> it should be handled by the window compositor. See 
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/merge_requests/1120#note_634772 and 
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/issues/1739
>
> They consider a11y as an ugly implementation and want to get rid of it. They think no one use Orca. And do 
> not imagine for which usages. They consider blind users should use other OS.
>
> 3. Consequences:
> - any feedback on Gitlab about this bugs is useful, provided that it is constructive. We need to show them 
> we exist, have the right to use free software and GUIs, and we are not so few. And even if GUI is not the 
> best from a theorical point of view, it is the social will of beginners and necessary to accomplish some 
> actions.
> - Before or after FOSDEM, Hypra and GNOME get involved in a hackfest to establish a roadmap: what should be 
> done, where (Wayland or the toolkits), how to fund, etc. Thanks to this IRL meeting, I hope we will show 
> what a blind user does, why he is legitimate, what is technically necessary, and who can get involved. 
> According to this meeting issue, we might help Qt instead of GTK. I hope this meting will be a good 
> beginning and not a break.
>
> Recommendations:
> - prefer the bug reports above instead of here, it will be more useful.
> - do not accept to hear "a blind user should use a CLI". Right in theory, but no for beginners and medium 
> end-user.
> - Stay constructive: it will help us in the future dialog. But you can explain the law, the international 
> rights.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Le 04/11/2019 à 15:53, Michał Zegan a écrit :
> > So, I use that excuse to ask, what is the current status of wayland
> > accessibility? I mean there are problems in f31 as said, but before f31
> > for example? Things like flat review mouse clicking and stuff? I didn't
> > track it and bugs were moved to gitlab so no clue.
> >
> > W dniu 04.11.2019 o 15:50, Joanmarie Diggs pisze:
> > > Hi Pavel.
> > >
> > > I cannot do anything about that within Orca. Sorry!
> > >
> > > --joanie
> > >
> > > On 11/4/19 3:08 AM, Pavel Vlček wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Accessibility is broken under Fedora 31 / default session - Wayland.
> > > > What is not speaking?
> > > >
> > > > - gparted
> > > >
> > > > - Anaconda installer
> > > >
> > > > - all aps with sudo and sudo -E
> > > >
> > > > when I switch to xorg, all works perfectly as expected, but switching
> > > > session to xorg requires to set password with passwd, because gdm
> > > > doesn't show select session button without password.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Pavel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
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> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html