Re: [orca-list] Ot: does anyone have a certification from the Linux foundation?

[Alex Midence <alex midence gmail com>]

Fair?  Not worried about fair.  That's an emotional argument.  I'm making one based on challenging the 
premise that a college degree is the only valid proof of competence in certain fields and that it should be 
always given weight over a professional designation.  Obviously, a  doctor would fall under the same category 
as a lawyer, engineer, architect or molecular biologist.  As I state in my message below, that sort of 
specialized knowledge is something for which a college degree is indispensible.  

And, I also wasn't making a case for self instruction.  I was making a case for the validity of non-college 
certifications.  Many such have learning programs that can be taken at different institutions, often remotely 
while still being instructor-led.  They provide the necessary knowledge and skills to obtain the 
certification in question much more quickly than a traditional college or university curriculum with all its 
electives, core subjects that don't necessarily impact the job you are trying to do and schedules that just 
have you come to class for one or two hours a day for a semester at a time while you potentially plunge into 
debt year after year.  

Examples:
Redhat Linux Certification training:  http://www.globalknowledge.com/training/category.asp?pageid=9&catid=400
Sundry other IT-Related certifications training: http://www.trainingcamp.com/global/training/default.aspx
Project Management (PMP) certification training: 
https://www.learningtree.com/training-directory/Project-Management-Training-15.htm

In my own case as a learning professional, there is this program for our cplp certification:
https://www.td.org/Education/Programs/CPLP-Preparation

there are many many others. 

Alex M



-----Original Message-----
From: John Heim [mailto:john johnheim net] 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 11:35 AM
To: Alex Midence; 'B. Henry'; orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ot: does anyone have a certification from the Linux foundation?

But surely you don't think it's unfair for states to require a person to go to medical school in order to be 
a doctor, do you? You just can't learn everything you need to know to do something like manage a research 
cluster on your own. It's not practical. You don't dismiss the value of finishing high school, do you? So why 
are you drawing an arbitrary line at high school? The world is getting more and more complicated every day. 
It just takes more than 4 years of high school to learn everything you need to know. Heck, I use what I 
learned in English class in college practically every day. I write a better grant proposal because of the 
writing classes I took in college.



On 03/10/2016 04:47 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
> I think you and I are addressing two separate issues here.  The point I'm trying to make is that I find it 
> unwise for a hiring manager to make a degree a sort of trump card on deciding who to hire instead of giving 
> due consideration and weight to other indicators like professional licenses and certifications along with 
> pre-employment aptitude assessments that someone has the knowledge and skill to do the job for which they 
> are hiring.  It was something of a protest to your statement that you needed a degree to be a sysadmin at a 
> university or school if you even wanted to try and get one of those positions in your area.  Not against 
> you, but against whoever makes these kinds of hiring decisions.  It struck me as a rather narrow-minded 
> policy on the part of such institutions who could otherwise find people who would do a perfectly good job 
> as long as they were shown to have certifications, knowledge and experience since I really don't think you 
> need a four-year degree to learn how to manage a linux server.  I am in no way seeking to dissuade somebody 
> from getting a college degree if that is their inclination, however.  Every edge you can get as a blind 
> person should be pursued if possible.  Rather, I am also making the point that there are other, less time 
> consuming proofs of proficiency which can be obtained that can serve as a substitute in certain fields when 
> coupled with experience if a degree is not a viable plan of action to pursue at the time.  I've met IT 
> professionals who didn't have degrees but did have Cisco, CompTIA, Microsoft and other such certifications 
> who did a fine job at their company and made pretty decent money.
>
> Of course, if you are hiring a molecular biologist, actuary, lawyer or neurosurgeon, or if you are looking 
> for someone to design your building, ensure the structural soundness of it or make sure the company you 
> will be running in it does so within the confines of your state or country's laws, you really want to get 
> some degreed professionals as those are pretty specialized jobs that can't be learned in the six months or 
> year that it would take someone to get a non-college certification.
>
> I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I find degrees to be useless or unimportant.  They are neither. 
>  They are also not the only indicators of someone's potential to do a good job at an organization though.
>
> Regards,
> Alex M
> -----Original Message-----
> From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of John 
> Heim
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 8:19 AM
> To: B. Henry; orca-list gnome org
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ot: does anyone have a certification from the Linux foundation?
>
> Right, believe me, I understand that you have to play the hand life deals you. I've gotten into that debate 
> on other lists as well. Far too many blind people think that if anyone isn't as successful as they are, 
> it's their own fault. It doesn't matter what level of success that is. I have seen guys on SSDI trash other 
>  people for being on SSDI. I'm not doing that. I just want to fight this perception that a college degree 
> isn't particularly useful. That is just totally wrong. If you want to get into a STEM field (science, 
> technology, engineering, and mathematics), a degree is very important.
>
>
> On 03/09/2016 04:33 PM, B. Henry wrote:
> > The problem is that some folks just could not swing it for one reason 
> > or another, and how to go back to college both time and money wise later in life can be very challenging 
> > to say the least.
> > Not finishing highschool is pretty dumb in most cases, and if you are 
> > bright enough to not need it then you should be able to finish an adult ed highschool program in weeks I'd 
> > think.
> > Anyway, the only reason I even chimed in on this at all is that I did 
> > hear reports, think on business news about several major companies dropping degree requirements for many 
> > positions. I'm talking mjor i.t. players, but do not remember which ones.
> > Come to think of it they may have been talking more developers/coders 
> > than admins also, and I can see where it'd be more likely that 
> > someone might not pick up on some of the skills they need on their own when it comes to some aspects of 
> > administration. The sikill set is a bit more diverse than that for programming I'd say.
> >         
> --
> John Heim
> john johnheim com
>
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--
John Heim
john johnheim com