Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps



Hey Nolan.

Well, yours sounds lower/deeper. But it doesn't make a difference in
terms of my ability to discern the value change (i.e from the value it
was a second ago to the value it is now). And I thought that was one of
the things being improved by your patch.

But to be clear, my position is that if it helps others -- or even if it
doesn't help others, but most people like it better -- and the worst
case scenario is that they detect no functional difference between
what's in place now and what you propose, then it seems to make sense to
commit your proposed changes. The code definitely is cleaner and less
arbitrary.

Having said that, without any feedback from actual users (beyond you and
Chrys) who have actually tried your patch and reported their findings
here and/or on the bug, I'm hesitant to commit it. All I've got so far
is you saying yours is better and Chrys saying his is better.

Lastly, to paraphrase what you've stated a couple of times regarding
this issue, I've got real work to do. <smiles> So after more people
chime in and we have something resembling consensus, I'll proceed
accordingly.

Make sense?
--joanie

On 06/29/2016 01:57 PM, Nolan Darilek wrote:
I honestly don't recall what my patch was at this point, and know that
the version I posted to the list initially did have errors. I think that
the version on the issue did not have these errors.


Joanie, to be clear, you're saying you can't hear the difference between
the current behavior and this attached patch, which is how my fork
differs from origin/master? This is what I'm currently using and I can
definitely hear a difference, so I want to ensure we're all on the same
page.




On 06/29/2016 12:27 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
Peter: This is what I am trying to ascertain with my question. And this
is what I was thinking. But Chrys' answer to my question wasn't that she
didn't recognize the differences between his and Nolan's versions, but
that she couldn't identify the new value of the progress bar. Which I
interpret to mean Nolan's patch made it worse for her.

Chrys: As someone who could not hear the differences between the two
versions, I'm a little surprised by your response. Nolan's patch really
made things worse for her?

--joanie

On 06/29/2016 01:22 PM, Peter Vágner wrote:
Hello,

I think it's worth noting Nolan's improvement does break nothing and
adds better consistency for those being able to take advantage of that.

Greetings

Peter



Dňa 29. júna 2016 19:20:20 používateľ chrys87 web de napísal:

Hi Joanie,

Its hard to identify the new value here. I think there are better ways
for not so musical trained people.

Cheers chrys

Am Mi. Juni 29 20:08:58 2016 GMT+0300 schrieb Joanmarie Diggs:
Hey Chrys.

When you say she didn't recognize big differences, do you mean she
could
not tell the difference between your version and Nolan's? Or do you
mean
that Nolan's version made it harder for her to identify the new
value of
the progress bar?

--joanie

On 06/29/2016 11:10 AM, chrys87 web de wrote:
I think belling two beeps is too much beeping around XD.
The octave ting is not interesring to non musicals. I tested it
months ago with my girl. She didnt recogniced big differences.
I think more helpful is panning or an other idea is to bell alwas
the same Frequenzy that just get more quite. So you know how far the
beep is away from muting.
Am Mi. Juni 29 18:21:35 2016 GMT+0300 schrieb Janina Sajka:
At the risk of suddently sending far too many emails on this
topic, let
me try my own answer out on you ...

I think he's saying, I know I'm saying ...

Speaking is a second class choice. There's a richer, less invasive
choice that will communicate intuitively even to people who can't
explain why it communicates intuitively.

It means mapping a seris of musical intervals to a set of defined
percentage complete settings, e.g.

An arbitrary set for purposes of elucidation ...

20% e-c
40% f-c
60% g-c
80% a-c
90% b-c
100% c-c

The letter pitches are not important. The relationship from the
first to
second would clearly need to be provided as specific Hz values.

I feel I should attach an mp3 or something. Trust me, it works!

Janina


Joanmarie Diggs writes:
Hey Fernando.

I'm a little confused. Are you saying that instead of speaking
progress
bar percentages via speech-dispatcher (which Orca has done for many
years), Orca should instead speak them via espeak? Or are you
saying
that Orca isn't speaking progress bars? If the latter, and if
you're
sure that you have that setting enabled and have selected an
appropriate
interval and source (all, current app, current window), then that
sounds
like a bug to me and I'd like specific steps to reproduce the
problem.
Thanks!
--joanie

On 06/29/2016 09:46 AM, Fernando Botelho wrote:
I remember hearing progress beeps on NVDA and also being pretty
lost, as
i did not know how high they were supposed to go.

I wish both Orca and NVDA could give just a percentage via
espeak, or if
beeping is a must, then alternate between current stage and
final beep.
So if final beep were 400hz., then beep alternating 300hz 400hz,
310hz
400hz, 320hz 400hz, 330hz 400hz, and so forth.

Best,

Fernando


On 06/29/2016 10:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
I’d like progress beeps that pan from left to right instead of
using
pitch, because most of the time I don’t know exactly how high the
pitch goes.
Sent from my Mac.

Devin Prater
r d t prater gmail com



On Jun 29, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com>
wrote:
Hello,


I have looked at the issue you have linked to and I am somewhat
shocked that Nolan's patch has been put aside with somewhat
disrespectfull attitude.


To us non musicians or not very sensitive to individual tones it
might appear as something what may not be needed however I
know some
people who might really benefit from having clean predictable
like
implementation Nolan has suggested.


Can you Chrys and Joanie get back to that please and
reconsider it?

Greetings


Peter




On 29.06.2016 at 11:55 chrys87 web de <mailto:chrys87 web de>
wrote:
Hi Joanie, Hi List,
   I did some finetuning on the progressbar beeps caused by
userrequests.
You could find them attached on that ticket:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328
<https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328>
   I made two changes:
1. make the beeps more short.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508
<https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508>
   2. Ignore Interval for the beeps. That only make sense for
Output
that needs "time to present". People like to activate both;
Beeps
for an progess gues, the voice/ braile output for precise
information in big intervals.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509
<https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509>
   What does others think about that here?
cheers chrys


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Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
_______________________________________________
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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
-- 

Janina Sajka,    Phone:    +1.443.300.2200
             sip:janina asterisk rednote net
         Email:    janina rednote net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:    http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
(WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures   
http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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-- 
Gesendet von meinem Jolla
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Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


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Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org



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