Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps

From: Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com>
To: <chrys87 web de>, <jdiggs igalia com>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:22:31 +0200

Hello,

I think it's worth noting Nolan's improvement does break nothing and addsbetter consistency for those being able to take advantage of that.


Greetings

Peter



Dňa 29. júna 2016 19:20:20 používateľ chrys87 web de napísal:

Hi Joanie,

Its hard to identify the new value here. I think there are better ways fornot so musical trained people.


Cheers chrys

Am Mi. Juni 29 20:08:58 2016 GMT+0300 schrieb Joanmarie Diggs:

Hey Chrys.

When you say she didn't recognize big differences, do you mean she could
not tell the difference between your version and Nolan's? Or do you mean
that Nolan's version made it harder for her to identify the new value of
the progress bar?

--joanie

On 06/29/2016 11:10 AM, chrys87 web de wrote:
> I think belling two beeps is too much beeping around XD.

> The octave ting is not interesring to non musicals. I tested it monthsago with my girl. She didnt recogniced big differences.

> I think more helpful is panning or an other idea is to bell alwas thesame Frequenzy that just get more quite. So you know how far the beep isaway from muting.

>
> Am Mi. Juni 29 18:21:35 2016 GMT+0300 schrieb Janina Sajka:
>> At the risk of suddently sending far too many emails on this topic, let
>> me try my own answer out on you ...
>>
>> I think he's saying, I know I'm saying ...
>>
>> Speaking is a second class choice. There's a richer, less invasive
>> choice that will communicate intuitively even to people who can't
>> explain why it communicates intuitively.
>>
>> It means mapping a seris of musical intervals to a set of defined
>> percentage complete settings, e.g.
>>
>> An arbitrary set for purposes of elucidation ...
>>
>> 20% e-c
>> 40% f-c
>> 60% g-c
>> 80% a-c
>> 90% b-c
>> 100% c-c
>>
>> The letter pitches are not important. The relationship from the first to
>> second would clearly need to be provided as specific Hz values.
>>
>> I feel I should attach an mp3 or something. Trust me, it works!
>>
>> Janina
>>
>>
>> Joanmarie Diggs writes:
>>> Hey Fernando.
>>>
>>> I'm a little confused. Are you saying that instead of speaking progress
>>> bar percentages via speech-dispatcher (which Orca has done for many
>>> years), Orca should instead speak them via espeak? Or are you saying
>>> that Orca isn't speaking progress bars? If the latter, and if you're
>>> sure that you have that setting enabled and have selected an appropriate
>>> interval and source (all, current app, current window), then that sounds
>>> like a bug to me and I'd like specific steps to reproduce the problem.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> --joanie
>>>
>>> On 06/29/2016 09:46 AM, Fernando Botelho wrote:
>>>> I remember hearing progress beeps on NVDA and also being pretty lost, as
>>>> i did not know how high they were supposed to go.
>>>>
>>>> I wish both Orca and NVDA could give just a percentage via espeak, or if
>>>> beeping is a must, then alternate between current stage and final beep.
>>>>
>>>> So if final beep were 400hz., then beep alternating 300hz 400hz, 310hz
>>>> 400hz, 320hz 400hz, 330hz 400hz, and so forth.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Fernando
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/29/2016 10:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
>>>>> I’d like progress beeps that pan from left to right instead of using
>>>>> pitch, because most of the time I don’t know exactly how high the
>>>>> pitch goes.
>>>>> Sent from my Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>> Devin Prater
>>>>> r d t prater gmail com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have looked at the issue you have linked to and I am somewhat
>>>>>> shocked that Nolan's patch has been put aside with somewhat
>>>>>> disrespectfull attitude.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To us non musicians or not very sensitive to individual tones it
>>>>>> might appear as something what may not be needed however I know some
>>>>>> people who might really benefit from having clean predictable like
>>>>>> implementation Nolan has suggested.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you Chrys and Joanie get back to that please and reconsider it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 29.06.2016 at 11:55 chrys87 web de <mailto:chrys87 web de> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Joanie, Hi List,
>>>>>>>   I did some finetuning on the progressbar beeps caused by
>>>>>>> userrequests.
>>>>>>> You could find them attached on that ticket:
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328
>>>>>>> <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328>
>>>>>>>   I made two changes:
>>>>>>> 1. make the beeps more short.
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508
>>>>>>> <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508>
>>>>>>>   2. Ignore Interval for the beeps. That only make sense for Output
>>>>>>> that needs "time to present". People like to activate both; Beeps
>>>>>>> for an progess gues, the voice/ braile output for precise
>>>>>>> information in big intervals.
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509
>>>>>>> <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509>
>>>>>>>   What does others think about that here?
>>>>>>> cheers chrys
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>>>> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
>>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>>> <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
>>>>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>>>>> <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
>>>>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>>>>> <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
>>>>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>>>>> <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
>>>>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>>>> <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>>> orca-list gnome org
>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>>> orca-list gnome org
>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>> orca-list gnome org
>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> orca-list mailing list
>>> orca-list gnome org
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/

>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

>>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>>
>> --
>>
>> Janina Sajka,  Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
>>                        sip:janina asterisk rednote net
>>                Email:  janina rednote net
>>
>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:      http://a11y.org
>>
>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures       http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> orca-list mailing list
>> orca-list gnome org
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/

>> GNOME Universal Access guide:https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.or
>


--
Gesendet von meinem Jolla
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/

GNOME Universal Access guide:https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

Follow-Ups:
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: Joanmarie Diggs

References:
- [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: chrys87
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: Peter Vágner
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: Devin Prater
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: Fernando Botelho
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: Joanmarie Diggs
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: Janina Sajka
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: chrys87
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: Joanmarie Diggs
- Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps
  - From: chrys87

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