Re: [orca-list] Informative "Orca"

[Christopher Chaltain <chaltain gmail com>]

I agree, but resources are not limitless. Adding preferences and 
features without an intuitive way to access and manage those preferences 
will be counter productive. I think these issues should be taken as a 
whole when deciding on Orca development priorities.

On 28/02/16 18:33, Max wrote:
> I think that facilitating access to the settings - is a separate issue.
> There are options. For example - could be implemented the ability to
> search settings, using the key words ...
>
> 29.02.2016 01:45, Christopher Chaltain пишет:
> > There's also the fact that too many preferences and options can really
> > degrade the user experience. It always feels like I spend hours combing
> > through the preferences in applications like MS Office, Lotus Notes and
> > even JAWS looking for that one setting or combination of settings, if it
> > even exists, to get the experience I want.
> >
> > Once the number of preferences and settings gets to a certain point, a
> > lot of care has to be taken in setting sensible defaults and grouping
> > settings into logical groups both for presenting the settings and
> > setting them in chunks. For example, with Orca, I think the verbosity
> > settings are and should be used to set how much information Orca
> > provides.
> >
> > On 28/02/16 16:30, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> > > Right, I've heard the "more preferences can only be good, they let
> > > everyone have the software they want and shouldn't be opposed" claim
> > > before. For a UX-centric approach to why this isn't true, please read:
> > >
> > > http://uxmyths.com/post/712569752/myth-more-choices-and-features-result-in-higher-satisfac
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  From a development perspective, every new preference is another place
> > > for performance to degrade. Instead of just forming an utterance and
> > > speaking it, Orca has to check a bunch of conditionals. So instead of
> > > read-all just streaming text to a synth, it instead has to check whether
> > > to speak headings, links, tables, table headers, table rows, table
> > > columns, images, lists, list items, horizontal lines, input fields and
> > > types, buttons, list position, number of items in list, etc. Each of
> > > those is a condition check, a setting variable, an entry in the settings
> > > UI, a translatable string to all the languages Orca supports, etc. And
> > > each represents a new vector for bugs, so maybe a given behavior only
> > > surfaces if you have "speak Link" disabled, "speak List" and "speak List
> > > item" enabled.
> > >
> > > In short, adding more settings seems like a no-brainer, but each setting
> > > has a cost in effort and increases the likelihood of bugs.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 02/28/2016 04:17 PM, Max wrote:
> > > > Hi.
> > > >
> > > > The fact that I'm working with a computer at a very high speed. For
> > > > me, as well as more for some users, it is important to get exactly the
> > > > information they need. In particular, this applies to familiar
> > > > applications, and websites. I'm talking about a very high speed. In
> > > > detail, I will hardly be able to explain, since you need explains how
> > > > features of a speech synthesizer, and some features of the Slavic
> > > > languages ​​(you simply do not understand me, and my knowledge of the
> > > > English language, it is not enough). Many settings - it is always good
> > > > because it allows you to configure "orca" exactly as the user needs.
> > > > In addition, a wide variety of settings, will eliminate any
> > > > dictatorship (this list, do not read all of the users that use the
> > > > "orca"). Ie everyone can create his "orca", and use the "orca", as he
> > > > should be.
> > > > I understand - you just adapt to existing conditions, and you do not
> > > > need additional configuration. And I would like that to each user can
> > > > adjust all functions and features "orca", for themselves.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 28.02.2016 23:35, Nolan Darilek пишет:
> > > > > Here's something I'm confused about, and I'm not trying to offend, I'm
> > > > > just genuinely curious. I hit this when developing Spiel, too.
> > > > >
> > > > > If an item that is the last utterance in a string annoys you, why not
> > > > > just stop speech before it is spoken, or just treat it as anything
> > > > > else
> > > > > you don't care about and ignore it? So for instance, if a list is
> > > > > being
> > > > > read and the text "item 5 of 15" is spoken as the last utterance, and
> > > > > you aren't interested in that information, why not just pre-empt it
> > > > > with
> > > > > another action? I didn't even notice the "table row" issue until I
> > > > > forced myself to listen to an entire message line. Typically I've
> > > > > either
> > > > > deleted or switched to a message before the row was finished
> > > > > reading so
> > > > > hadn't even noticed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just worry that at some point, we'll have a huge pile of preferences
> > > > > to account for the fact that everyone wants things read or not read
> > > > > just
> > > > > a bit differently, yet when I use a screen reader I've usually
> > > > > continued
> > > > > my interaction at the point where useless stuff gets read so I don't
> > > > > even notice. I guess I'm just curious why others don't do this, and if
> > > > > there's some valuable insight I'm missing. With Spiel, for instance, I
> > > > > purposefully decided not to let people disable speaking list
> > > > > indices, so
> > > > > you'd always get "5 of 15" spoken after the 5th list item, but I
> > > > > always
> > > > > ensured that the item you didn't want to hear was likely last so you'd
> > > > > either be performing your next action, or would be interacting with
> > > > > that
> > > > > item and thus not paying attention anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > That said, I guess I could see a case for eliminating "table row" in
> > > > > speaking Thunderbird message lines, or maybe even in tree views
> > > > > completely. When I hear that something is a table, I assume that I can
> > > > > interact with it by navigating by cells and just saw that I
> > > > > couldn't do
> > > > > that in Thunderbird's messages view, so by that token calling it a
> > > > > table
> > > > > might lead me to conclude that I could interact with it in a way
> > > > > that I
> > > > > can't. But in general I don't wait for my screen reader to say
> > > > > everything it has to before continuing my work, so would rather not
> > > > > see
> > > > > a pile of preferences for turning on and off a hundred different
> > > > > utterances. :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 02/28/2016 03:06 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > > > > > Hey Max, all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 02/28/2016 03:35 PM, Max wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. I would like to have the opportunity to turn off the
> > > > > > > announcement of
> > > > > > > links, headings, lists, tables, frames, as well as the items in the
> > > > > > > list. Sometimes, this information, I simply do not need;
> > > > > > Do you mean turn it off completely, or just turn off, say, tables? If
> > > > > > you mean completely and when the page is loading, this can be
> > > > > > disabled
> > > > > > by getting in the preferences for that application
> > > > > > (Orca+Ctrl+Space). On
> > > > > > the last page of the resulting dialog, you should find an option to
> > > > > > present the summary upon page load. Uncheck it. If instead you mean
> > > > > > turn
> > > > > > off just tables, I could add an orca-customizable option.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. I would like to be able to disable the announcement of some
> > > > > > > information. For example, when the focus in the "thunderbird" is
> > > > > > > set on
> > > > > > > a folder, then after the name of the folder, "orca" says something
> > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > "row in the table." It is this extra information for me, I would
> > > > > > > like to
> > > > > > > be able to remove;
> > > > > > If it's just the row that's annoying and everyone agrees it's
> > > > > > annoying,
> > > > > > I can make that change. I just started a thread for that. Let's see
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > people think.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I would like to have the opportunity to turn off the
> > > > > > > announcement of
> > > > > > > the state of trees and branches. For example: I have a familiar
> > > > > > > application to me, and I in him everything I know. Information is
> > > > > > > minimized or maximized, for me in this application is unnecessary.
> > > > > > > Also,
> > > > > > > in some cases, I do not need levels.
> > > > > > If it's a really familiar app, and you *just* want the displayed text
> > > > > > spoken, get into the application preferences (again
> > > > > > Orca+Ctrl+Space). On
> > > > > > the Speech page, you should find "Only speak displayed text".
> > > > > > Checking
> > > > > > that should dramatically reduce what Orca says. If that makes Orca
> > > > > > say
> > > > > > too little, try instead checking the "Brief" verbosity radio
> > > > > > button on
> > > > > > that same page.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On my to-do list for the 3.21/3.22 release is add a new page to the
> > > > > > Orca
> > > > > > preferences dialog in which you can customize exactly what is spoken
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > what is not spoken for each object type. That will be configurable
> > > > > > both
> > > > > > at the default level and the application level. So you should
> > > > > > ultimately
> > > > > > be able to have exactly what you want.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --joanie
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail