Re: [orca-list] Informative "Orca"



I agree, but resources are not limitless. Adding preferences and features without an intuitive way to access and manage those preferences will be counter productive. I think these issues should be taken as a whole when deciding on Orca development priorities.

On 28/02/16 18:33, Max wrote:
I think that facilitating access to the settings - is a separate issue.
There are options. For example - could be implemented the ability to
search settings, using the key words ...

29.02.2016 01:45, Christopher Chaltain пишет:
There's also the fact that too many preferences and options can really
degrade the user experience. It always feels like I spend hours combing
through the preferences in applications like MS Office, Lotus Notes and
even JAWS looking for that one setting or combination of settings, if it
even exists, to get the experience I want.

Once the number of preferences and settings gets to a certain point, a
lot of care has to be taken in setting sensible defaults and grouping
settings into logical groups both for presenting the settings and
setting them in chunks. For example, with Orca, I think the verbosity
settings are and should be used to set how much information Orca
provides.

On 28/02/16 16:30, Nolan Darilek wrote:
Right, I've heard the "more preferences can only be good, they let
everyone have the software they want and shouldn't be opposed" claim
before. For a UX-centric approach to why this isn't true, please read:

http://uxmyths.com/post/712569752/myth-more-choices-and-features-result-in-higher-satisfac




 From a development perspective, every new preference is another place
for performance to degrade. Instead of just forming an utterance and
speaking it, Orca has to check a bunch of conditionals. So instead of
read-all just streaming text to a synth, it instead has to check whether
to speak headings, links, tables, table headers, table rows, table
columns, images, lists, list items, horizontal lines, input fields and
types, buttons, list position, number of items in list, etc. Each of
those is a condition check, a setting variable, an entry in the settings
UI, a translatable string to all the languages Orca supports, etc. And
each represents a new vector for bugs, so maybe a given behavior only
surfaces if you have "speak Link" disabled, "speak List" and "speak List
item" enabled.

In short, adding more settings seems like a no-brainer, but each setting
has a cost in effort and increases the likelihood of bugs.


On 02/28/2016 04:17 PM, Max wrote:
Hi.

The fact that I'm working with a computer at a very high speed. For
me, as well as more for some users, it is important to get exactly the
information they need. In particular, this applies to familiar
applications, and websites. I'm talking about a very high speed. In
detail, I will hardly be able to explain, since you need explains how
features of a speech synthesizer, and some features of the Slavic
languages ​​(you simply do not understand me, and my knowledge of the
English language, it is not enough). Many settings - it is always good
because it allows you to configure "orca" exactly as the user needs.
In addition, a wide variety of settings, will eliminate any
dictatorship (this list, do not read all of the users that use the
"orca"). Ie everyone can create his "orca", and use the "orca", as he
should be.
I understand - you just adapt to existing conditions, and you do not
need additional configuration. And I would like that to each user can
adjust all functions and features "orca", for themselves.


28.02.2016 23:35, Nolan Darilek пишет:
Here's something I'm confused about, and I'm not trying to offend, I'm
just genuinely curious. I hit this when developing Spiel, too.

If an item that is the last utterance in a string annoys you, why not
just stop speech before it is spoken, or just treat it as anything
else
you don't care about and ignore it? So for instance, if a list is
being
read and the text "item 5 of 15" is spoken as the last utterance, and
you aren't interested in that information, why not just pre-empt it
with
another action? I didn't even notice the "table row" issue until I
forced myself to listen to an entire message line. Typically I've
either
deleted or switched to a message before the row was finished
reading so
hadn't even noticed.

I just worry that at some point, we'll have a huge pile of preferences
to account for the fact that everyone wants things read or not read
just
a bit differently, yet when I use a screen reader I've usually
continued
my interaction at the point where useless stuff gets read so I don't
even notice. I guess I'm just curious why others don't do this, and if
there's some valuable insight I'm missing. With Spiel, for instance, I
purposefully decided not to let people disable speaking list
indices, so
you'd always get "5 of 15" spoken after the 5th list item, but I
always
ensured that the item you didn't want to hear was likely last so you'd
either be performing your next action, or would be interacting with
that
item and thus not paying attention anyway.

That said, I guess I could see a case for eliminating "table row" in
speaking Thunderbird message lines, or maybe even in tree views
completely. When I hear that something is a table, I assume that I can
interact with it by navigating by cells and just saw that I
couldn't do
that in Thunderbird's messages view, so by that token calling it a
table
might lead me to conclude that I could interact with it in a way
that I
can't. But in general I don't wait for my screen reader to say
everything it has to before continuing my work, so would rather not
see
a pile of preferences for turning on and off a hundred different
utterances. :)


On 02/28/2016 03:06 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
Hey Max, all.

On 02/28/2016 03:35 PM, Max wrote:

1. I would like to have the opportunity to turn off the
announcement of
links, headings, lists, tables, frames, as well as the items in the
list. Sometimes, this information, I simply do not need;
Do you mean turn it off completely, or just turn off, say, tables? If
you mean completely and when the page is loading, this can be
disabled
by getting in the preferences for that application
(Orca+Ctrl+Space). On
the last page of the resulting dialog, you should find an option to
present the summary upon page load. Uncheck it. If instead you mean
turn
off just tables, I could add an orca-customizable option.

2. I would like to be able to disable the announcement of some
information. For example, when the focus in the "thunderbird" is
set on
a folder, then after the name of the folder, "orca" says something
like
"row in the table." It is this extra information for me, I would
like to
be able to remove;
If it's just the row that's annoying and everyone agrees it's
annoying,
I can make that change. I just started a thread for that. Let's see
what
people think.

3. I would like to have the opportunity to turn off the
announcement of
the state of trees and branches. For example: I have a familiar
application to me, and I in him everything I know. Information is
minimized or maximized, for me in this application is unnecessary.
Also,
in some cases, I do not need levels.
If it's a really familiar app, and you *just* want the displayed text
spoken, get into the application preferences (again
Orca+Ctrl+Space). On
the Speech page, you should find "Only speak displayed text".
Checking
that should dramatically reduce what Orca says. If that makes Orca
say
too little, try instead checking the "Brief" verbosity radio
button on
that same page.

On my to-do list for the 3.21/3.22 release is add a new page to the
Orca
preferences dialog in which you can customize exactly what is spoken
and
what is not spoken for each object type. That will be configurable
both
at the default level and the application level. So you should
ultimately
be able to have exactly what you want.

--joanie

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org



_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail


[Date Prev][Date Next]   [Thread Prev][Thread Next]   [Thread Index] [Date Index] [Author Index]