Re: [orca-list] Informative "Orca"

[Christopher Chaltain <chaltain gmail com>]

There's also the fact that too many preferences and options can really 
degrade the user experience. It always feels like I spend hours combing 
through the preferences in applications like MS Office, Lotus Notes and 
even JAWS looking for that one setting or combination of settings, if it 
even exists, to get the experience I want.

Once the number of preferences and settings gets to a certain point, a 
lot of care has to be taken in setting sensible defaults and grouping 
settings into logical groups both for presenting the settings and 
setting them in chunks. For example, with Orca, I think the verbosity 
settings are and should be used to set how much information Orca provides.

On 28/02/16 16:30, Nolan Darilek wrote:
> Right, I've heard the "more preferences can only be good, they let
> everyone have the software they want and shouldn't be opposed" claim
> before. For a UX-centric approach to why this isn't true, please read:
>
> http://uxmyths.com/post/712569752/myth-more-choices-and-features-result-in-higher-satisfac
>
>
>  From a development perspective, every new preference is another place
> for performance to degrade. Instead of just forming an utterance and
> speaking it, Orca has to check a bunch of conditionals. So instead of
> read-all just streaming text to a synth, it instead has to check whether
> to speak headings, links, tables, table headers, table rows, table
> columns, images, lists, list items, horizontal lines, input fields and
> types, buttons, list position, number of items in list, etc. Each of
> those is a condition check, a setting variable, an entry in the settings
> UI, a translatable string to all the languages Orca supports, etc. And
> each represents a new vector for bugs, so maybe a given behavior only
> surfaces if you have "speak Link" disabled, "speak List" and "speak List
> item" enabled.
>
> In short, adding more settings seems like a no-brainer, but each setting
> has a cost in effort and increases the likelihood of bugs.
>
>
> On 02/28/2016 04:17 PM, Max wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > The fact that I'm working with a computer at a very high speed. For
> > me, as well as more for some users, it is important to get exactly the
> > information they need. In particular, this applies to familiar
> > applications, and websites. I'm talking about a very high speed. In
> > detail, I will hardly be able to explain, since you need explains how
> > features of a speech synthesizer, and some features of the Slavic
> > languages ​​(you simply do not understand me, and my knowledge of the
> > English language, it is not enough). Many settings - it is always good
> > because it allows you to configure "orca" exactly as the user needs.
> > In addition, a wide variety of settings, will eliminate any
> > dictatorship (this list, do not read all of the users that use the
> > "orca"). Ie everyone can create his "orca", and use the "orca", as he
> > should be.
> > I understand - you just adapt to existing conditions, and you do not
> > need additional configuration. And I would like that to each user can
> > adjust all functions and features "orca", for themselves.
> >
> >
> > 28.02.2016 23:35, Nolan Darilek пишет:
> > > Here's something I'm confused about, and I'm not trying to offend, I'm
> > > just genuinely curious. I hit this when developing Spiel, too.
> > >
> > > If an item that is the last utterance in a string annoys you, why not
> > > just stop speech before it is spoken, or just treat it as anything else
> > > you don't care about and ignore it? So for instance, if a list is being
> > > read and the text "item 5 of 15" is spoken as the last utterance, and
> > > you aren't interested in that information, why not just pre-empt it with
> > > another action? I didn't even notice the "table row" issue until I
> > > forced myself to listen to an entire message line. Typically I've either
> > > deleted or switched to a message before the row was finished reading so
> > > hadn't even noticed.
> > >
> > > I just worry that at some point, we'll have a huge pile of preferences
> > > to account for the fact that everyone wants things read or not read just
> > > a bit differently, yet when I use a screen reader I've usually continued
> > > my interaction at the point where useless stuff gets read so I don't
> > > even notice. I guess I'm just curious why others don't do this, and if
> > > there's some valuable insight I'm missing. With Spiel, for instance, I
> > > purposefully decided not to let people disable speaking list indices, so
> > > you'd always get "5 of 15" spoken after the 5th list item, but I always
> > > ensured that the item you didn't want to hear was likely last so you'd
> > > either be performing your next action, or would be interacting with that
> > > item and thus not paying attention anyway.
> > >
> > > That said, I guess I could see a case for eliminating "table row" in
> > > speaking Thunderbird message lines, or maybe even in tree views
> > > completely. When I hear that something is a table, I assume that I can
> > > interact with it by navigating by cells and just saw that I couldn't do
> > > that in Thunderbird's messages view, so by that token calling it a table
> > > might lead me to conclude that I could interact with it in a way that I
> > > can't. But in general I don't wait for my screen reader to say
> > > everything it has to before continuing my work, so would rather not see
> > > a pile of preferences for turning on and off a hundred different
> > > utterances. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > On 02/28/2016 03:06 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > > > Hey Max, all.
> > > >
> > > > On 02/28/2016 03:35 PM, Max wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 1. I would like to have the opportunity to turn off the
> > > > > announcement of
> > > > > links, headings, lists, tables, frames, as well as the items in the
> > > > > list. Sometimes, this information, I simply do not need;
> > > > Do you mean turn it off completely, or just turn off, say, tables? If
> > > > you mean completely and when the page is loading, this can be disabled
> > > > by getting in the preferences for that application
> > > > (Orca+Ctrl+Space). On
> > > > the last page of the resulting dialog, you should find an option to
> > > > present the summary upon page load. Uncheck it. If instead you mean
> > > > turn
> > > > off just tables, I could add an orca-customizable option.
> > > >
> > > > > 2. I would like to be able to disable the announcement of some
> > > > > information. For example, when the focus in the "thunderbird" is
> > > > > set on
> > > > > a folder, then after the name of the folder, "orca" says something
> > > > > like
> > > > > "row in the table." It is this extra information for me, I would
> > > > > like to
> > > > > be able to remove;
> > > > If it's just the row that's annoying and everyone agrees it's annoying,
> > > > I can make that change. I just started a thread for that. Let's see
> > > > what
> > > > people think.
> > > >
> > > > > 3. I would like to have the opportunity to turn off the
> > > > > announcement of
> > > > > the state of trees and branches. For example: I have a familiar
> > > > > application to me, and I in him everything I know. Information is
> > > > > minimized or maximized, for me in this application is unnecessary.
> > > > > Also,
> > > > > in some cases, I do not need levels.
> > > > If it's a really familiar app, and you *just* want the displayed text
> > > > spoken, get into the application preferences (again
> > > > Orca+Ctrl+Space). On
> > > > the Speech page, you should find "Only speak displayed text". Checking
> > > > that should dramatically reduce what Orca says. If that makes Orca say
> > > > too little, try instead checking the "Brief" verbosity radio button on
> > > > that same page.
> > > >
> > > > On my to-do list for the 3.21/3.22 release is add a new page to the
> > > > Orca
> > > > preferences dialog in which you can customize exactly what is spoken
> > > > and
> > > > what is not spoken for each object type. That will be configurable both
> > > > at the default level and the application level. So you should
> > > > ultimately
> > > > be able to have exactly what you want.
> > > >
> > > > --joanie
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail