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Re: [orca-list] Maybe I can help develop Orca.

hi
I am no kernel expert by any means whatsoever, but as I understand it, the tty layor is old, rather krufty, and out of date even though it does still work, so they're trying to abstract away how it works. They want systemd to handle the lower level bits while making all apps taht want to use it be in userspace. I am no security expert either, but the idea of a screen reader having to a, both be in the kernel and b, run outside of any user, even root, is just ridiculous. For you apple users, imagine having to run voiceOver as uid0, otherwise known as root to read certain apps or to read any apps at all. This may indeed be what it does I don't know apple very well at all. For you windows users, nvda runs as the user that starts it, with API calls to secure bits of windows which it can only get at if signed by a cert. That's overkill in my opinion but accessibility tools should *always* be run as userspace. Always. The accessibility stack should not let anything through that is sent to it like it currently does. The gnome people know this is a problem but they don't seem to want to change it, saying it's easier this way. At least, this is what I hear. Joanie, is this correct? If I'm going to grumble about something I'd like to get my facts straight lol. This brings me to another thing I've been wondering about for some time. Would it be possible to add to orca the ability to intercept input from things other than keyboards? gamepads, touchscreens, etc so that you could, for example, turn on learn mode and explore them? I'm not saying this should be done immediately or anything, just wondering what would have to happen for this to be possible. I'm thinking at-spi changes, and then orca changes but I am not an expert on the accessibility stack at all. So I don't step in the "gnome settings daemon intercepting keystrokes pie" I'm well aware orca can't circumvent the desktop. For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about I managed to really annoy joanie a few months back by asking repeatedly that she fix gnome intercepting keystrokes before orca could see them in learn mode. This happens with special keys like audio mute, audio raise volume, increase brightness, and so on. I asked one too many times and she said quite bluntly that that was not her bug and she couldn't fix it lol. And that's why you don't ask for fixes too many times in a short time frame lol. Totally my fault, I forgot I'd even asked. There's also storm and chrys87's excellent fenrir project, which is a console screen reader written from scratch in python. Once it matures a bit it's going into sonar to replace speakup as the console screen reader. 
Thanks
Kendell Clark

Thanks
Kendell Clark

On 08/19/2016 03:16 PM, John Covici wrote:

Can you elaborate on these kernel changes?  I can't believe that all
console i/o would be handed off to systemd which would make it
mandatory -- you will hear screams and explosions all over the place
if anyone tried that.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:36:18 -0400,
Devin Prater wrote:

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Also, since the orbit reader, 20-cells for $400 or so, should be coming out, braille *should* be more widely 
used. The brltty folks will have a field day with that.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 19, 2016, at 1:48 PM, B. Henry <burt1iband gmail com> wrote:

  I agree that while there is certainly work that can be done to improve orca that far too much of Joani's 
valuable time seems to be taken up working around
  shortcomings in applications.
  I know there is work being done on an alt console reader as well, a fork of jupiter as I understand it, but 
I sincerely hope that folks will port speakup
  to user space in time for the kernel changes that will eventually hand off console support to systemd as I 
understand it.
  Speech-dispatcher also needs work, and while I think Luke will start focusing more on this he can probably 
use some help.
  Braille support in orca is something I've never had the chance to test, much less actually use day in and 
day out, but I know it is of vital importance to
  many, both those who do not hear or hear well, and those who need something more comfortable for tasks such 
as solving math problems, balancing equations,
  etc.
  So, John, you need to stick around for many years to make sure this important component is kept up to snuff.
  Thanks again for work on liblouis, and thanks to all who work on Linux accessibility, got to say this at 
least once a season somewhere/think it is
  worthwhile list clutter!
  Regards,

  --
      B.H.
    Registerd Linux User 521886

   Fernando Botelho wrote:
  Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 03:16:43PM -0300

  My own humble suggestion would be different. I think you can make a bigger

  impact on the quality of the non-technical end=user, by helping the Libre

  Office guys with accessibility coding or testing, or reporting.  Orca can

  improve certainly, but right now the biggest issue I suspect is when

  applications do not give it what they should.

  Best wishes,

  Fernando

  On 08/18/2016 02:46 PM, Mgr. Janusz Chmiel wrote:

  Dear MR Boyer,

  I Am deeply appreciating yours development enthusiasm and MRS Joan Marie

  will be very probably extremely pleased that so experienced developer

  with so many development knowledge have decided to help.

  I think, that Orca screen reader have reached very very much. It support

  many functions, many keyboard shortcuts to control various aspect of it.

  Its stability is very good.

  I see only one big disadvantage of Orca when I compare it with NVDA for

  Windows.

  When user uses flat rewiev, for example, numeric keys 7 and 9 to browse

  lines of text, Orca must always read object database and it can not

  monitor dynamic changes while in flat rewiev.

  I Am afraid, that this issue is caused by The programmers technique, how

  at-spi C++ and Python components work and have been designed.

  Or, Python code of Orca would be too slow to dynamically monitor changes

  at The background.

  NVDA uses GDI hooks or MSAA or UI automation calls.

  BUt this is only one disadvantage, which i see while comparing with NVDA.

  Also Windows screen readers can not enable users to use all various

  programs, because if developers will use not standard GUI tool kit for

  GUI creation, even The best screen reader developer willbe helpless.

  Those are only my opinions, I do not to de graduate works of core

  developers of Orca and at-spi, Py-atspi, ETC.

  The typical situation related to slow flat review algorithms is

  situation, when user will update components by using ANdroid SDK

  manager.

  It is complex Java program, and in this cases, there will be some

  slowness related problems when browsing window by using Orca flat review

  keys.

  John J. Boyer napsal(a):

  I've handed over my work with liblouis to a very capable team. Now I'm

  thinking of what I can do for Orca and NVDA. I turned 80 in July, but I

  want to remain active as long as possible.

  ---

  Tato zpráva byla zkontrolována na viry programem Avast Antivirus.

  https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  _______________________________________________

  orca-list mailing list

  orca-list gnome org

  https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list

  Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca

  Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/

  GNOME Universal Access guide:

  https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

  Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

  _______________________________________________

  orca-list mailing list

  orca-list gnome org

  https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list

  Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca

  Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/

  GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html

  Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

  _______________________________________________
  orca-list mailing list
  orca-list gnome org
  https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
  Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
  Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
  GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
  Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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